RSL disconnection on side-by-side/downplane?

[nsh 0]

Hi.
Could anybody explain me, please, why does SIM section 5-1 recommends to disconnect RSL in the case of side-by-side or downplane (if altitude permits)?
Frankly, I could not figure out what harm the connected RSL would do if I steer the side-by-side or cut away the main on the downlplane...

Thanks in advance.

[riggerpaul 1]

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Hi.
Could anybody explain me, please, why does SIM section 5-1 recommends to disconnect RSL in the case of side-by-side or downplane (if altitude permits)?
Frankly, I could not figure out what harm the connected RSL would do if I steer the side-by-side or cut away the main on the downlplane...

Thanks in advance.

All RSLs are not equal.

The RSL on a Racer attaches to both risers, not just one. The routing of this RSL is such that if you chop the main after the reserve has deployed, the RSL will choke off the reserve and you end up with nearly nothing over your head.

Disconnecting this RSL before chopping in a two-out situation prevents this problem.

The SIM says disconnect the RSL in case the reader is jumping a rig with this sort of RSL.

[nsh 0]

Thank you for the explanations.
It makes sense for different types for RSLs.
Actually, SIM edition I have (2009-2010) says "disconnect if altitude permits" but it doesn't emphasize that this should be done in the case you have one specific type of the rig or another.
From what you're saying, RSL must be disconnected regardless of the altutude for Racer rig. Maybe SIM should be more specific about it.

[diablopilot 2]

There is also the small chance that the RSL could snag upon breakaway. Most two out happen so low that altitude is critical...

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I would argue that the SIM is NOT the correct place to elaborate on the specific details of the operation of a unique brand of harness/containers. The owners manual is the correct place for that discussion.

Page 44 of the Oct 2003 version of the Racer Owners Manual covers this issue.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[Baksteen 84]

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Thank you for the explanations.
It makes sense for different types for RSLs.
Actually, SIM edition I have (2009-2010) says "disconnect if altitude permits" but it doesn't emphasize that this should be done in the case you have one specific type of the rig or another.
From what you're saying, RSL must be disconnected regardless of the altutude for Racer rig. Maybe SIM should be more specific about it.

I do not entirely agree with you.
"If altitude permits" is a very important statement.
What would you do with a downplane at 200 feet.
100 feet?

What to do in a stable two-out situation (biplane, side by side) or a downplane at 3000 feet is a different discussion.
Besides, with the student rigs at my DZ (vector, telesis) as well as my own container (javelin) it should not matter.

But what gear are you jumping and what are the opinions of your instructors?
Ask them when you see them next, if you haven't already

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[popsjumper 2]

NSH,
Diablopilot nailed it when he said, "There is also the small chance that the RSL could snag upon breakaway. Most two out happen so low that altitude is critical..."

Glideangle's post about SIM contents/intent right below Diablopilot's is spot on too.

I would suggest that it be in your procedures to disconnect the RSL anytime you see two canopies out regardless of the configuration.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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What would you do with a downplane at 200 feet. 100 feet?

I don't see the relevance here. Are you saying that a downplane mysteriously appeared at those altitudes with no prior warning?

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What to do in a stable two-out situation (biplane, side by side) or a downplane at 3000 feet is a different discussion.

And a simple one...disconnect the RSL.

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Besides, with the student rigs at my DZ (vector, telesis) as well as my own container (javelin) it should not matter.

And if you make the disconnect part of your procedures, you're right, it won't.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Baksteen 84]

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What would you do with a downplane at 200 feet. 100 feet?

I don't see the relevance here. Are you saying that a downplane mysteriously appeared at those altitudes with no prior warning?

What could happen if someone made aggressive inputs with a side-by side? let's say they do a 360 to face into the wind..

EDIT: Unrealistic now I know you advocate disconnecting the RSL anytime?
Maybe, maybe not.
Low main activation + cypres fire at 750 feet resulting in a side by side and you are already pretty damn low...

EDIT2: yes, I know you'll have lotsa fabric overhead..

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[nsh 0]

I still jump student Navigator.
My instructors jump the like systems: RSL is connected to one raiser only.
The very first thing I did - I asked them and after discussion, they could not find the clear reason, why would I need to disconnect RSL in these cases. Maybe they implied "for the type of rigs we use" - but I am still quite a novice so maybe I took this too straight (like maybe I took too straight what SIM says).
I do understand that altitude is a major factor - you usually do not want to spend time for RSL when you got downplane on a low alti.
Anyway, the instructors recommended me to disconnect RSL in the cases SIM recommends it, if altitude permits - even if it does not make much sense.
My intent was to understand, why. Thanks everybody for the explanations!

[riggerpaul 1]

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Hi.
Could anybody explain me, please, why does SIM section 5-1 recommends to disconnect RSL in the case of side-by-side or downplane (if altitude permits)?
Frankly, I could not figure out what harm the connected RSL would do if I steer the side-by-side or cut away the main on the downlplane...

Thanks in advance.

All RSLs are not equal.

The RSL on a Racer attaches to both risers, not just one. The routing of this RSL is such that if you chop the main after the reserve has deployed, the RSL will choke off the reserve and you end up with nearly nothing over your head.

Disconnecting this RSL before chopping in a two-out situation prevents this problem.

The SIM says disconnect the RSL in case the reader is jumping a rig with this sort of RSL.

After reading all the responses, I'll retract my earlier comment (last line of my post) about why the SIM suggests disconnecting the RSL.

diablopilot's explanation is the correct one. (Thanks JP!)

So, on most rigs, you should disconnect it if you can to avoid the possible snag hazard.

On a Racer, you MUST disconnect it or your reserve will be choked off.

Thanks all for the discussion.

[livendive 8]

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I would suggest that it be in your procedures to disconnect the RSL anytime you see two canopies out regardless of the configuration.

I would agree with that, "if altitude permits." In a two out situation, an RSL can do nothing to help you and there is a chance (however large or small) that it could cause an entanglement during a chop. A quick risk/reward comparison would suggest disconnecting unless that would present greater risk (e.g at low altitude).

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[nsh 0]

Here is the PD dual square report which mentions the RSL disconnection in the case of dual deployment configurations. http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/dualsq.pdf
Thanks again to everyone for ideas!

[SethInMI 174]

My S&TA stresses in his safety day briefing on RSL's that RSLs often have velcro holding them down to the reserve riser or the container.

He points out the uncertainty in how a cutaway main will break this velcro. Would there be any hesitation that would be enough to cause the main to turn and tangle?

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[popsjumper 2]

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...What could happen if someone made aggressive inputs with a side-by side? let's say they do a 360 to face into the wind..

Your prior warning was in the FJC...I hope.
Somebody wants to screw the pooch? I'm tempted to say, "Have at it" but I cannot bring myself to be that cynical.

Other than that, your question was strictly rhetorical so I still don't see the relevance of it.

But, to answer it directly anyway...anything could happen. The problem is that of all the things that could happen, only 1 of them is good.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[azureriders 0]

There is all kind of possibilities/reasons for disconnecting an RSL. Instead of going on and on about them I will try, to the best of my opinion, to directly answer the original poster’s question “why does SIM section 5-1 recommends to disconnect RSL in the case of side-by-side or downplane (if altitude permits)?”

I think most of us can agree that the dual square report is an excellent read and full of great information and I would venture to say probably the main source of information used in the writing of section 5-1 of the SIM. A direct quote from the side-by-side section of the dual square report says “It must be noted that RSL's were not used in any of these tests. Great caution must be used when cutting away in that scenario due to the varied styles and applications of RSL's.” The dual square report also concludes in any two out situation requiring a cutaway that you should “disconnect any RSL, if time /altitude permits, and cutaway the main canopy”.

Now, my conclusion in my opinion is that 1) they did not use RSLs in any testing for simplicity 2) there were already varying types of RSLs at that time and no telling how many more to come and 3) if you disconnect your RSL, you are back to the same situation as the test jumper was in.

So therefore, disconnect your RSL or else you are in a situation that we do not have test data to support, therefore we would all be guessing at what will happen.

That is my best attempt to explain why the SIM says what the SIM says.

Personally I am of the mind set that if you study your gear and understand how the RSL works and deem it not to be a huge threat then maybe disconnecting should not be on the top of the priority list, however disconnecting it could still not hurt. To support my opinion on this is another quote from the dual square report “If they are already low there isn't a lot of time to be playing around trying to undue things when that time could be used cutting away and sorting out the best place to land.”

If you agree with my mind set, I must stress KNOW YOUR GEAR!! The dual sided RSL on the Racer rigs have already been mentioned in this thread. I have personally witnessed first hand, air to air, up close the effects of not disconnecting that style RSL before chopping a two out. I thought I had lost a very good friend that day as he spiraled past me and into the ground with a dual entanglement. Luckily he and his passenger survived and my friend is now jumping again.

[tkhayes 348]

almost ALL two-canopy-out situations are caused by one of two things - poor gear checks, i.e. dislodged pins or reserve handles, or by pulling low and having the AAD fire when the main deploys.

All the these are preventable. Newer gear has better pin protection. Check your handles, maintain your gear to high standards

And pull on time.

Having two canopies out is NOT a situation you want to find yourself in. These days with higher performance canopies, even student zero-p canopies, it can turn into a very ugly situation is a very short period of time - and the situation is not easily dealt with, even by experienced skydivers.

prevent it. Do not ever let it happen - that is the key.