Austin area, need help...

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Need someone who owns the power tool needed to cut wood. My boys are doing the derby thing with cub scouts and I have no clue what tools are even used to cut them. I tried to convince them that solid blocks of wood roll just as good but they want to have cars, not rectangles on wheels. Anyone who has such tools Ill bring ya beer or food in exchange for a few cuts of wood... PM me pleaseeeee

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[normiss 868]

Don't they still use balsa wood?
That wood can be hand shaped....with simple hand tools. A very light duty saw and some sandpaper!

I think it was a kit when I was a kid not much modifications could be made...is weight still limited?

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Im not sure what kind of wood, its light colored.... does that help? I assume its pinewood cause thats the name of the derby. Yes weight is limited, but they add weights to make it. Kyles got a complicated design (at least in my opinion) and I refuse to help except with getting the wood cut. If push comes to shove we will have blocks of wood but since Im one of two moms in the whole group the other boys cars are awesome already and we well have two blocks of wood....

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[AggieDave 6]

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Don't they still use balsa wood?
That wood can be hand shaped....with simple hand tools. A very light duty saw and some sandpaper!

Its really soft pine wood. It can still VERY easily be shaped with hand tools. A small craft hand saw, some sand paper and some model paint. BAM, you're done. Now get some lead weights so you can get it up to the weight class.

Don't forget to sand the wheels, sand the "axles" and lube with powdered graphite.

(I've built "one or two" of these things growing up).

EDIT: Personally I believe that power tools should not be used in the construction of the derby cars. Also, parental help should be suggestive in nature, not possessive in nature in this case. That's the point. Give the kids some simple hand tools, give some supervision and suggestions, let them do the work and learn. They'll make what they want to make and they'll be damned proud of it!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jceman 1]

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Don't they still use balsa wood?
That wood can be hand shaped....with simple hand tools. A very light duty saw and some sandpaper!

I think it was a kit when I was a kid not much modifications could be made...is weight still limited?

Despite being called "Pinewood Derby", the wood handed out in the kits is basswood. It is heavier than balso but carves very easily which is why BSA carving kits have been using it since way back before I was in scouts. (somewhere around the time dirt was invented).

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them?

[AggieDave 6]

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Despite being called "Pinewood Derby", the wood handed out in the kits is basswood.

Huh, for literally my entire remembered life I've been in scouting programs and I always thought it was a soft white pine.

Well, you learn new things some days. Those are good days.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lisamariewillbe 1]

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A small craft hand saw

Is it called a hand saw? Do I need to look for anything specfic in them?

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lube with powdered graphite.

Where would I get that from?

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EDIT: Personally I believe that power tools should not be used in the construction of the derby cars. Also, parental help should be suggestive in nature, not possessive in nature in this case. That's the point. Give the kids some simple hand tools, give some supervision and suggestions, let them do the work and learn. They'll make what they want to make and they'll be damned proud of it!

I think I can allow this, I do want them to do it and not me but well if you have time could you maybe write up any safety information and technique Id need to teach them to use the saw? Ive never used one .

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[normiss 868]

Bike dept at Wal Mart usually has the powdered graphite.

This thread is bringing back some sweet memories of me getting started with the whole mechanical spectrum with me Pops back in the day! THANKS LMWB!Best of luck to the boys! - post pics!

[AggieDave 6]

Go to Hobby Lobby. You'll find a section full of pine wood derby supplies. If they don't have it, call around to the hobby shops in your area. Resist the urge to buy a preshaped car. However, you can buy flat lead weights, powdered graphite, sand paper (from a course to a fine grit, start course, work fine) and you'll find a wide assortment of "craft saws."

Its basically a small hand saw, about the size of a TV remote (or smaller). The basic tenents of shop saftey come into effect here, and it gives you a perfect opportunity to teach shop safety with relatively safe tools. They're not going to be able to take a finger or hand off with that little craft saw (unless they're really determined). They can cut themselves, though.

Have them wear protective glasses. No screwing off when in the shop area. No shorts, wear shoes and long pants, etc. Your basic shop safety rules.

You start by having them draw on paper what they want their car to look like. Then you go over the design with the block of wood. A ballpoint pin marks on the blocks fairly well, even better is a good old fasion pencil. Mark out the design. Can't draw it because all the "extra wood" is in the way? Well, work your way to where your design is in the wood.

Once the basic shape is found with the craft saw, you can use a small chisel, a good whittling knife or other simple wood tools to make the finer detail cuts. Now comes the sanding. Start with a course grit and work to a fine grit.

Now the FUN part. Painting. Get in a well ventilated area, put paper down and start painting. You could start with a spray paint (white or black) for a base. Then use Estes model paint for "pin striping" and other important details. You know, the important things for a boy to have on his car. A skull and crossbones, an American flag, a number on the hood and sides, etc.

Now, take the wheels and sand the hell out of them to make them nice and smooth on the "tread." The plastic pieces are rough and don't roll well, which won't race well. After you get them REALLY smooth, then do the same with the body of the little nails used for the axles. Not too smooth on the part that goes into the wood, but real smooth on the part that the wheel sits on . Then put powdered graphite in the hub of the wheel and on the nail. Put it together. You want the wheel to be a little loose against the car, but still slightly solid. The car should roll VERY easily.

Now weigh the car and add weights as needed. Check with your local rules, I seem to remember 8oz, but that's probably really high.


This should take your kids a better part of a couple of evenings or a full saturday to complete a car. However, you can see all the important and really neat things they'll learn. Working with their hands, safety proceedures, pride in your work, completion of goals, etc.

Have fun, take a LOT of pictures during the process, you'll want to see those pictures in a few years when your kids earn their Eagles.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Your welcome, heres my cubs ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lisamariewillbe/271838874/

Ill take alot while they make the cars but FIRST I need someone to explain how to use tools... I can use a hammer with little and sometimes no injury, screw driver is about the limit to my knowledge.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[normiss 868]

Beautiful...absolutely beautiful!
Can I call you Dad?



oh the times in the shops...I need a garage...

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Thanks Aggie, thats EXACTLY what I need. They already have the designs drawn (kyles my little artist, he made about a dozen drawings and had me vote for my favorite.) Thank you so much ya'all.... Gonna go find the tools before they come home today, they will freak that Im letting them use a saw.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Douva 0]

Here are a couple of tips from my own experience:

1. Simple, aerodynamic designs usually work best. Getting fancy won't accomplish anything, so you don't need a scroll saw or anything like that. You can cut a nice aerodynamic wedge shape with a hand saw, but you'll need a vice or clamps to hold the wood stable while you cut it.

2. Instead of hollowing out the car and pour in molten lead like most people do, you can get closer to the maximum weight, without going over, by drilling holes in the car and hammering in small, lead fishing weights. You'll need to use a small scale, such as you might use for weight food items or chemicals, to continually check the car's weight until you have it exactly right.

3. The success of the car will hinge on the wheels. You want them to spin very smoothly but not have any play in them. You should be able to give them one quick spin with a finger and watch them continue spinning for a couple of seconds without any further input. When you look at the wheels, they should spin smoothly on their axis without any wobbling.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[AggieDave 6]

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Can I call you Dad?

Sure but I'll make you get me beers out of the fridge while I watch TV after work.

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oh the times in the shops...I need a garage...

I'm with you on that! I have a decent little metal shop setup and a decent automotive setup that's literally sitting in a storage unit due to no garage right now.

Although it would be really handy to have, seeing how I've started re-restoring my VW again.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Hey do you guys know if its legal to put little lego men in them? I was looking at the drawings they want and both have a place for a little man in them. I dont think any of us are concerned that they win, its the journey not the destination and I know that most the other scouts have dads doing 99% of the work and have been involved in scouting for a long time so the chances are slim that they will win but they will have fun getting there.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[NewGuy2005 53]

Don't be intimidated by the "high end" cars. They stick out like a sore thumb and are obviously made by the dads.

[AggieDave 6]

There's a BSA manual that has the race rules that you can get. I did a quick google and found this site, looks like it might help you out. Eitherway it depends on your troop and council.

http://www.geocities.com/~PACK215/pwd-rules.html

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[normiss 868]

just so long as I can get myself a beer too...

I'm really starting to crave another project vehicle...I'm itching to restore an old radiator-grill pick-up and an old Harley...pan head I think.

All my automotive stuff is really crammed into a corner right now...DAMNIT! Still wanting some metal working tools...I missed out on my best rfiends metal shop when he passed...I just couldn't afford it at the time..nice lathe...and a big ass Bridgeport!

[AggieDave 6]

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nice lathe...and a big ass Bridgeport!

That's what I'm dreaming of. OLD Bridgeport machine tools. Breaks, lathe, drill press...Right now its me, a MIG welder, chop saw, Oxy-Acc torch, angle grinder and determination.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Douva 0]

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Go to Hobby Lobby. You'll find a section full of pine wood derby supplies. If they don't have it, call around to the hobby shops in your area. Resist the urge to buy a preshaped car. However, you can buy flat lead weights, powdered graphite, sand paper (from a course to a fine grit, start course, work fine) and you'll find a wide assortment of "craft saws."

I forgot about the flat lead weights. Those are a good option also. If your kids aren't interested in winning, as you said, they will have more room to get creative with their designs. I was in a church based clone of Scouts, so I don't know the exact BSA rules, but I know we were allowed to put men in our cars if we wanted to. One guy even had a troll doll nailed to the top of his. I don't think he won any races, but he did win a prize for the most creative design.

Depending on the designs your kids choose, you might want to pick up a miter box for making some of the initial cuts.

Does anybody know where we could get our hands on a pinewood derby track? That would be an awesome gimmick for a boogie--Everybody builds and brings their own cars for a pinewood derby.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Oh they would love to win but I have prepared them for not winning. They would rather do it themselves with their designs and I know once they find out they get to cut to they will be even more excited. Cody's might be a bit hard and I might have to have him change his a bit because theres lots of curves. I should scan the designs and get you all to review them.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[AggieDave 6]

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was in a church based clone of Scouts

Which one? I was in Royal Rangers my entire child hood. Was in the FCF and even earned the Gold Medal of Achievement, which was their version of the Eagle Scout.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lisamariewillbe 1]

The boys are also in Awanas and Extreme kids... similar to scouts but no derbys.... thank goodness. Both are chuch based but so is the scouts here, we meet at the church. It has been such a awesome experience for us all. They just eat it up.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Make sure you drill a 1/4" hole in the rear of the car and insert a bottle rocket. This will help with the winning part.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[bwilling 0]

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3. The success of the car will hinge on the wheels.

I'd have to add that the success hinges on the wheels, and bringing the car in at maximum weight, or as near as possible to maximum weight! Try to have a weight system that's adjustable, because you'll want to fine tune the weight on the actual scale that's at the competition... and they'll let you do that.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."