Removable slider on a freefall main?

[DougH 270]

I was wondering if it would be safe, and sensible to put a removable slider on a main that is taken terminal, and used under regular jumping conditions?

I collapse my slider, pull it down off my slinks, down the risers and behind the head. It still blocks a good deal of vision behind me, and is a hindrance when trying to find all the traffic in the air.

It would be nice to be able to take the slider off after opening, ONLY AFTER confirming that the airspace is safe enough to do so. I spend the first moments after opening confirming that the chute is good to go, and that I am not flying up or down jump run in the danger zone.

I see two sides to this idea:

Bad idea: possible failure would give you one hell of a terminal opening, it will add packing time, and extra expense.

Good idea: it will be quick to remove with no chance of sliding up past the back of my helmet, it will open up the risers further and improve glide, it will give me an unobstructed view behind me for better view of other traffic.

I wanted to see what more experienced people think. I know I can be diligent about replacing it on the rig and packing it correctly, and I don't mind an extra minute or two to pack it up.

I do a lot of sub-terminal openings, but it would definitely be going to terminal a lot too.

Thanks for the responses everyone!!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DougH 270]

I found this post:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2278852;search_string=slider%20terminal;#2278852

Most of the opinions support that it can be done, and is reliable, quick to stow, with good visibility benefits!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[AggieDave 6]

Sure its sensible and its done every single day by lots of people. There are a lot of different designs.

Do a search on RDS which is (Removable Deployment System). Typically its used by swoopers for swoop specific jumps, but it also jumped on regular jumps.

A solution for a non-swooper jumper who didn't want to deal with the hassel or malfunction possibilities is to put Slocks on your risers. Slocks are Slider Locks, if you do a search you'll find a few different threads and designs on this site. Slocks lock your slider all the way down on the bottom of your risers and keep it from climbing back up. Since its on your risers and not on your rig or jumpsuit (like the velcro and bungy slider holder designs) you don't have to worry about those problems during a cutaway with the system being used.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DougH 270]

Thanks Dave!

Do slocks keep the slider down below your field of vision with you head turned to look behind you, or just behind your head?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[AggieDave 6]

It keeps your slider locked down in the bottom of the risers. I put the slider behind my head, you could put it infront of your head if you really wanted, I guess. I haven't had any problem with field of vision issues with my slider behind my head and locked down with slocks.

Oh, I used Hookit's design, it works like a champ.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Floats18 0]

I have a cutaway with a stowed slider in a rubber band/ bungee slider keeper and did not have any problems... the rubber bands just broke off... no damage to the rig or the slider.

Brian Germain put up a diagram of his slocks up here some where... I'm sure a search will turn it up. 10 minutes for any rigger.

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[phoenixlpr 0]

Here you go.

[rhys 0]

I have just ordered a RDS for my canopy and i will be going to terminal 90% of the time.

I did some research into it and found that the Para concepts RDS built in chicago had the best system for my needs.

the thing is the primary use for them is on high performance canopies they didn't have an option for a Pilot but i'm sure it would be easy enough to construct one in the same dimentions as your slider?

talk to Para concepts;

Sales@para-concepts.com

they were nothing but professional and timely with my order so I have to recommend them for that.

and their system looks the most like a conventional slider that i have seen!

be safe.

rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[RMURRAY 1]

you need to pack for yourself so you know it is installed right also no packer is going to want to install it. I will install my stock slider for a 4 way training camp in the spring. also (it is only me?) I think at your jump number I would not bother with an RDS, concentrate on other more basic things. But on the positive side, if someone has a highly loaded Velo, Xaos, VX, JVX etc once you go with an removable slider, you will not go back...

edit...what kind of helmet do you wear? I jump a full face (RW) but am thinking about an open face for swooping - imo, this would have a bigger effect on "better vision" than the removable slider.

rm

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I have a cutaway with a stowed slider in a rubber band/ bungee slider keeper and did not have any problems... the rubber bands just broke off... no damage to the rig or the slider.

I'm glad it worked out for you. I haven't heard of any specific problems with cutaways when the system was in use, but those sorts of cutaways for none CRW jumps are relatively rare. I just don't want to have that complication during a malfunction.

Quote

Brian Germain put up a diagram of his slocks up here some where... I'm sure a search will turn it up. 10 minutes for any rigger.

Yeah, its a practical design, but its ugly as sin. That's why I went with Hookit's design. It works great and it still actually looks good on your rig, without having that dacron line sticking out all over the place.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lilchief 1]

I'm thinking of getting a removable slider and PC for my next canopy(maybe samurai 135 or simliar).

But will it be a hassel to install it after each jump? Will it delay my packing?
And will it have any effect for me, or will it be in the way?

Any thoughts?

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[DougH 270]

Quote

you need to pack for yourself so you know it is installed right also no packer is going to want to install it. [/reply

Couldn't you reset the slider yourself and then hand it over to packers. I pack for myself 85% of the time any way, and when I use a packer I already set the brakes, uncollapse the slider, and restow the pilot chute.

Or does it quarter in the packjob differently?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

• Quote

[AggieDave 6]

You will have to reinstall it after every skydive. If you install it incorrectly you will end up with with an incredibly hard opening (the kind that will hurt you and damage gear) or a malfunction that results in a chop.

Honestly, if you're not a competitive swooper, then a RDS is fairly pointless. Especially when you can have Slocks put on your risers that will give you many of the same benefits without the hassel.

Get your rigger to put Slocks on your risers and see if you like that before you make the next step.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DougH 270]

I fully understand the world of pain, or the after life of pain, that I would be in with a uninstalled or partially installed slider!!!

I will take your advice and try the slocks first though.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[JerryBaumchen 1,451]

Hi AggieDave,

Got a photo of your 'slocks?'

Jerry

[AggieDave 6]

Nope, but I'm off to the DZ, so I'll take my camera and see if I can't take some pics today.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[AggieDave 6]

Here's some pictures I took today. Sorry for the low quality, but it shows what you're wanting to know. Also, I only took pictures of one riser, but the same setup is on the other riser as well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[WeakMindedFool 0]

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Honestly, if you're not a competitive swooper, then a RDS is fairly pointless. Especially when you can have Slocks put on your risers that will give you many of the same benefits without the hassel.

I just started jumping an RDS and I gotta tell you, it is the shit! I don't know if it's a hot idea at 115 skydives....but then again I can't think of a reason why not. I tried every method of locking my slider down none of them come close to how open it feels with the slider off. I didn't realize how much I wasn't seeing. I leave my dbag and pc on the canopy and it takes no more then 60 seconds more to pack it. I didn't get it for swooping...ok thats a lie, I should have said I don't have the skills to need it for swooping I got to tell you, I'll never go back!
PEACE!
Jason

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[rhys 0]

Rds's were developed for swooping.
However, reducing drag and giving a larger field of vision is not only beinificial if you are doing high performance landings.

In heavy traffic or a deep spot over a cold lake, when the wind has suddenly changed direction(I have been in this position in queenstown, NZ) An rds could save your life.

Up until now they have been unavailable and we have not really 'needed' them. As they become more available and more people use them they will come down in price and perhaps will be an option on all canopies in the future?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Spizzzarko 0]

Removable sliders do have a lot of bennefits for those who are going fast under canopy, but if you are jumping a bigger canopy (like those who have 115 jumps should be doing) an RDS is not advisable. Please think long and hard about the additional risks (and there are a lot) versus the rewards (very few for your jump numbers) in using an RDS.

If you are not jumping a competitive canopy then you do NOT need an RDS. Unfortunately some people here are taking what the competitive swoopers are saying out of context. RDS's are great for competitive swooping and yes thay can be used for everyday jumping, but if you make the slightest rigging mistake with one the results can be dissaterous! You can be seriously injured of even killed. Please do not take any more additional risks in an allready dangerous sport. 99.9% of the people here DO NOT NEED an RDS and if you are interested in using one for anything other than the speed gains for competitive swooping then you are using the RDS for something other than its intended purpose and are venturing down a path of becoming a test jumper. NO manufacturer offers RDS's for sale. These are purely aftermarket products and you take all the risk when purchasing them. I also hope that no aftermarket company that makes and selld RDS's will sell them to someone with 115 jumps. 1000+ jumps and someone who competes in the CPC or other swooping events would be a good person to sell one to, but not to some one with 115 jumps. Spend your money on jump tickets dude and get some experience.

[DougH 270]

Are you talking a complete system, or just a removable slider. I will agree with you from the start about the danger of improperly rigging a slider, and I will agree with you about the ratio of expense to benefits.

But I disagree that I can't be trusted to properly rig one. I can't speak for any one else, but I am very methodical in the way that I handle my gear. I use the same routine when I pack, I use the same routine before every jump with my gear check.

While I lack the skydiving skill and experience of some one with 1000 jumps, that doesn't mean that I lack the ability to properly re-rig a slider.

People with no jumps are trusted to work as packers for tandems, "under the supervision of a rigger". Jump numbers don't come into play in that situation.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

Quote

While I lack the skydiving skill and experience of some one with 1000 jumps, that doesn't mean that I lack the ability to properly re-rig a slider.

People with no jumps are trusted to work as packers for tandems, "under the supervision of a rigger". Jump numbers don't come into play in that situation.

How about you make 15 another jump from the price of the RDS you really don't need? Keep on dreaming! That's safe .

BTW have you heard about the split slider?

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

While I lack the skydiving skill and experience of some one with 1000 jumps, that doesn't mean that I lack the ability to properly re-rig a slider.

People with no jumps are trusted to work as packers for tandems, "under the supervision of a rigger". Jump numbers don't come into play in that situation.

How about you make 15 another jump from the price of the RDS you really don't need? Keep on dreaming! That's safe .

BTW have you heard about the split slider?

He's not asking about an RDS, but a removable slider - everyone else chimed in talking about the RDS.

Short of mis-rigging that could happen in either instance, why would a split slider be 'safer' than a removable slider? The main thing I can see would be the longer "stow time" of a removable slider - would you agree?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[phoenixlpr 0]

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He's not asking about an RDS, but a removable slider - everyone else chimed in talking about the RDS.

Ok. Do your research. You might know it better than those even using it.

Quote

The main thing I can see would be the longer "stow time" of a removable slider - would you agree?

And that could be a bit harder to lose midair....

[Spizzzarko 0]

"Are you talking a complete system, or just a removable slider."

Yes these are pretty much one in the same. Sure you can rig it correctly, but realize that it is another failure point to a proven method of operation.

"I am very methodical in the way that I handle my gear."

That's nice, but so am I. This does not preclude you or I from fucking it up though. Again why would you want to add another 4 possible failure points to your system that works just fine? What are you gaining? More visibility? I am quite sure that your canopy is not racing around the sky so fast in a high traffic situation like a swoop contest that you cannot make a small turn to see what minimal arear that your slider blocks. Maybe you caould work on rolling your slider tighter.

"People with no jumps are trusted to work as packers for tandems, "under the supervision of a rigger". Jump numbers don't come into play in that situation."

Correct, but just like you said... These people are NOT jumping. There is a difference between wadding material up and piloting it.

I just do not see where an RDS will make your life so much better that you want to spend over $300 for one when you can invest that money better on jump tickets or a retirement account. I also do not think that you are going to get much support from other jumpers using RDS's either because of the reasons I have already listed. Good luck.