Removing my FXC 12000

[Zeppo 0]

Hi All

First off, I don't intend to start a discussion about using AAD's or not, however, I do have a concern about my particularly old AAD.

I have seen some experienced jumps cringe when they see the FXC on my rig. I've been told to turn it off after my canopy deploys, to avoid a double out.

Comments and reactions like that concern me. It this thing reliable? Would I, in fact, be better off removing it altogether?

If I had the money for a cypress, I'd just get one of those, but right now, I'm just happy to afford to jump.

So what should I do...take it out and trust in my own abilities, or leave it in, "just in case"

What goes up, must come DOWN!!!

[fcajump 164]

If I had NO option for a current generation AAD, I would keep an FXC over having nothing. HOWEVER, it MUST be maintained and tested correctly. Talk with your rigger on what this takes.

However, I hate to say it... but if you can afford to jump, you can afford a Cypres. Too much up front money? Look into one that has had its 4/8 year checks and good battery but only a couple seasons left on it. Much less money up front, and you can end up paying about the same per year of use.

JW

Quote

Hi All

First off, I don't intend to start a discussion about using AAD's or not, however, I do have a concern about my particularly old AAD.

I have seen some experienced jumps cringe when they see the FXC on my rig. I've been told to turn it off after my canopy deploys, to avoid a double out.

Comments and reactions like that concern me. It this thing reliable? Would I, in fact, be better off removing it altogether?

If I had the money for a cypress, I'd just get one of those, but right now, I'm just happy to afford to jump.

So what should I do...take it out and trust in my own abilities, or leave it in, "just in case"

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Zeppo 0]

Quote

However, I hate to say it... but if you can afford to jump, you can afford a Cypres. Too much up front money? Look into one that has had its 4/8 year checks and good battery but only a couple seasons left on it. Much less money up front, and you can end up paying about the same per year of use.

JW

Hmm...I never actually thought of buying an older cypress, that actually sounds like a pretty good idea. It's an option to look into anyway.

Thanks!

What goes up, must come DOWN!!!

[Zeppo 0]

UPDATE!!

I just got a message from my rigger, and he doesn't even think that my rig can hold a cypres.

So it's back to my original thought, shall I keep the FXC, or take the change, and take it out???

What goes up, must come DOWN!!!

[MrBrant 0]

If maintained correctly, (IMO) the FXC12000 is a perfectly acceptable AAD. (I've witnessed a couple saves by them).

You do have to be careful with them under canopy a bit. You probably won't be able to fire it with your PD-260, but it's something to keep in mind as you downsize.

I had a buddy who kept his though a downsize to a Sabre 150. He had a 2-out within a month.

Edited to add - I probably wouldnt' use one regularily though!

[mark 107]

Quote

[M]y rigger ... doesn't even think that my rig can hold a cypres.

Your rig may not have been "Cypres-ready" when it left the factory, but there are plenty of riggers qualified to alter a Vector II to accept a Cypres. Ask around.

Your FXC needs to go back to the factory every two years for a check-up. It also needs to go in a pressure chamber for a functional check at every repack; a plastic bag is no substitute. Ask your rigger what he does. (Those are the US FAA rules; I do not know what Canadian rules are.)

You may find it is cheaper to go with a used Cypres than it is to try to keep up with FXC maintenance.

Mark

[teason 0]

The FXC 12000 has, like any AAD, limitations.
First, activation is recomended a min of 1500' above the set altitude. That means 2500' if you have it set at 1000'

I advise jumpers with FXC 12000s to activate higher incase of a burble or hard/missed pull. (3000'-3500' depending on how consistant their activation is.)

Second, the unit will do what it's designed to do if maintained. That means it will fire when it measures a 64 fps decent through the set altitude and it can't tell the difference between freefall and a spiral. But as Brant said, not as big a concern with a large main canopy. We have student 260s with fxc 12000 and I haven't seen them fire in a spiral.

Finally, the required factory service on the 12000 is every 2 years. The turn around time is 90 days so you may have to time it with southern invasionsAlso, the manufacturer mandates a 120 day or repack (whichever comes first) test in a test chamber. Most riggers in Canada do not have test chambers as they cost about $3000-$3500US! That makes it pretty much unrealistic for a rigger to field test so most don't. I only know of a handfull of test chambers in Canada beside the one I have. I think FXC mandates it knowing it's not realistic so if there is a problem they can wash their hands and say "they weren't maintaining it!"

If you're thinking of getting a newer style AAD, you need only to take it to a Master Rigger or CSPA Rigger B. He can remove the FXC pockets and install the new pouches and chanels.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[Zeppo 0]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'll keep using the fxc, as I save money for a new rig, and cypress.

Blue Skies

What goes up, must come DOWN!!!

[everymansaved 0]

My wife fired the FXC on a student rig on her jump #13 with a hard spiral on a Manta...

God made firefighters so paramedics would have heroes...and someone can put out the trailer fires.

[fcajump 164]

Understand... the Vector II's did not originally come Cypres prep'ed. But as mentioned elsewhere here the Vector II can be prepped for the Cypres. Both my Vector I and II's have been Cypres prep'ed. I believe in the US it takes a Master Rigger, but not sure in CA.

As to the FXC, no problem but STRONGLY recommend you follow the mfg's instructions on maint and testing. Poor following of the maint/testing is WHY the FXC has a poor reputation. It does work (within the published limitations) but MUST be maintained. Otherwise it may not work when needed, AND/OR may fire when you do not want it to...

And once your rig is Cypres prep'ed, it can hold the used one you get this year, and the next used or new one you get down the road. Besides, I believe that most of the other modern generation AAD's use the same type of AAD mounting systems that the Cypres uses.

JW

Quote

UPDATE!!

I just got a message from my rigger, and he doesn't even think that my rig can hold a cypres.

So it's back to my original thought, shall I keep the FXC, or take the change, and take it out???

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[riggerrob 643]

(Those are the US FAA rules; I do not know what Canadian rules are.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CSPA says that AADs must be "maintained in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions."

If your rigger skips the chamber test -at every repack - the he is not following the manufacturer's instructions.

[riggerrob 643]

It was amusing how attitudes changed when second-generation electronic AADs (Cypres, Astra, etc.) were introduced.
In the old days, it was popular to complaint hat your FXC mis-fired if it fired anywhere below 3,500 feet.
Funny, but most of those "mis-fires" looked like less than 2,000 feet to me!

Shortly after Cypres became fashionable in Southern California (circa 1994), three women skydivers sheepishly admitted that they had sucked it down to a grand and would I please replace the cutters in their Cypri.
The most amazing thing was the lack of excuses. They just grudgingly admitted that they were low.

[pchapman 279]

Quote

Most riggers in Canada do not have test chambers as they cost about $3000-$3500US! That makes it pretty much unrealistic for a rigger to field test so most don't. I only know of a handfull of test chambers in Canada beside the one I have.

One DZ I know has a decent test chamber made out of plywood. Put a couple altis inside the window, use a vacuum cleaner and tap valve to regulate altitude, and use a stopwatch to measure the rate of descent. It's not aerospace quality but allows a DZ with a bunch of FXCs to actually do their 6 month checks at a low cost.

I tried a few jumps with a bag of 3 FXC 12000's on my belly. I did continuous toggle spirals (trying for the fastest descent possible) under a Sabre 135. I didn't set off any FXC's at 1.3 wing loading, but when I went to 1.4, some started going off. While that's just a few jumps, it was encouraging to see that it took a fair bit more than student wing loading to set them off. (The book value is 46 mph vertical.)

[Unstable 9]

In your situation - good decision to Keep the FXC - that is better than nothing.

=========Shaun ==========

[freeflysteve 0]

Hi,looking at your profile/occupation why dont you just buy a brand new set of gear?
Have it all in your company colours splash your company logo over all of it even have your company name/logo on your canopy and then write the whole lot off as an advertising expense and hey presto nearly a free rig with a cypress 2 to boot.

Swooping, huh? I love that stuff ... all the flashing lights and wailing sirens ... it's very exciting!