Scoop 0 #1 January 19, 2007 Had a drugs input today from a very exprienced person in that field who works with multiple agencies. Some of the interesting facts we learnt: - Heroin has no harmful effects to the body (excluding overdoses) - Taking heroin whilst pregnant is safer for the unborn child than drinking alcohol - 85% of people who have mental health issues previously used cannabis - Cannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 - 8 out of 10 ecstacy tablets are fake, nothing more than placebos - Cocaine on the streets is on average only 4% pure - After a mad night of drinking, the headache you get is the membrane surrounding the brain which has shrunk crushing your brain due to dehydration - It takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day - Taking aspirin whilst hungover prevents your body from breaking down the alcohol so should avoid taking it - Ecstacy is the biggest killer amongst drugs often causing the brain to swell and being forced out of gaps in your skull as your body takes on too much water. You feel you need to drink but youur body doesn't get rid of it - Cannabis use causes severe permanent brain damage - If youve ever drunk to the stage where you have woken up not able to remember a thing of the night before, that means you were probably only 2-3 drinks away from killing yourself as the part of the brain below where your memory is handled is the part thhat controls your breathing and heart rate - Eating before drinking closes your stomach releasing enzymes to break down food and therefore alcohol meaning you can drink more before feeling the effects of alcohol - GHB (the date rape drug) is used more in robberies than rapes as it puts people in a sleepwalking type state and you can be marched to a cash machine and told to withdraw money and you will without question - Amphetamine use can cause a haemorage (sp?) in the brain due to the over exertion of the body and undue stress caused to it - Kettamine can kill you when mixed with alcohol despite peoples belief you can take as much as you want and be fine Plenty of other facts we learnt too. Really was a fascinating input. Honest, no nonsense from someone who really knows. Guy who taught us was a previous drug dealer/user who got sent away, studied on physiology etc and now works in partnership with organisations all over the world including the Srious Organised Crime people in UK, DEA in the states and many other places. It seems if you really want to do a drug, do Heroin despite its social stigma its the only drug that is truly clean when prepared properly and has no adverse effects on the body. Its the lifestyle often associated with the addiction (crime/lack of self hygiene) that causes the problems. Plenty of people have full time jobs and are heavily reliant on heroin. THought you guys might find some of these interesting and shocking like I did. Knowing quite a few users of cannabis I was also concerned to see how harmful it really is, more so than alot of other drugs yet its socially acceptable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caspar 0 #2 January 19, 2007 some of that sounds like rubbish to be honest."When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #3 January 19, 2007 A few notes.... Quote- Heroin has no harmful effects to the body (excluding overdoses) - Taking heroin whilst pregnant is safer for the unborn child than drinking alcohol Yep, if you know the quality of the H. Unfortunately, on the street, you don't. Quote - Cannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 But people don't chain-smoke joints, so it's a moot point. Quote - Cocaine on the streets is on average only 4% pure Anyone who will actually pay for 4% purity on a repeated basis is an idiot. Quote - Ketamine can kill you when mixed with alcohol despite peoples belief you can take as much as you want and be fine I'd like to know the definition of "can" and the amounts they're referring to. I don't quite believe this.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #4 January 19, 2007 Quotesome of that sounds like rubbish to be honest. Care to elaborate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #5 January 19, 2007 QuotePlenty of other facts we learnt too. Umm, "facts" is a pretty strong word for most of that stuff that you posted. But I'm not even gonna get into it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #6 January 19, 2007 Yeah, this sounds like one of those "Facts you never knew" things that people email around and drug users tell each other. It used to be that X had no harmful effects other than the danger of dehydration."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #7 January 19, 2007 QuoteHeroin has no harmful effects to the body (excluding overdoses) Why do heroin users always look like they are about 30 years older than they really are??? The short-term effects of heroin abuse appear soon after a single dose and disappear in a few hours. After an injection of heroin, the user reports feeling a surge of euphoria ("rush") accompanied by a warm flushing of the skin, a dry mouth, and heavy extremities. Following this initial euphoria, the user goes "on the nod," an alternately wakeful and drowsy state. Mental functioning becomes clouded due to the depression of the central nervous system. Long-term effects of heroin appear after repeated use for some period of time. Chronic users may develop collapsed veins, infection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulitis, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration. In addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not readily dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #8 January 19, 2007 I can only regurgitate what I was told today: QuoteA few notes.... Quote- Heroin has no harmful effects to the body (excluding overdoses) - Taking heroin whilst pregnant is safer for the unborn child than drinking alcohol Yep, if you know the quality of the H. Unfortunately, on the street, you don't. It doesnt matter what quality the heroin. When you prepare it for injection all the impurities and additives are removed if the user knows the right techniques. Much like boiling salt water and filtering it afterwards. QuoteQuote - Cannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 But people don't chain-smoke joints, so it's a moot point. But it was calculated that 3 joints is as harmful as approximately 25-30 cigarettes so the repeated use isnt as neccesary QuoteQuote - Cocaine on the streets is on average only 4% pure Anyone who will actually pay for 4% purity on a repeated basis is an idiot. Then most people are idiots, thats the way it is. Thats why mr big bollocks thinks hes a hard nut cos he can snort lots of lines. Its because its shit quality. QuoteQuote - Ketamine can kill you when mixed with alcohol despite peoples belief you can take as much as you want and be fine I'd like to know the definition of "can" and the amounts they're referring to. I don't quite believe this. I cant remember the formula obviously but the reaction with alcohol in the body causes a higly toxic product. Your body has to prioritise what chemicals to break down and it finds it difficult dealing with the coktail inside it. THis isnt a myth, this has been proven Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #9 January 19, 2007 my bullshit meter is going off. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #10 January 19, 2007 QuoteWhy do heroin users always look like they are about 30 years older than they really are??? Because of their lifestyle. Some turn to crime and spend their day feeding their addiction, scoring more drugs, commiting crime to finance it. Things like eating and hygiene are not a concern to them The people who are more fortunate to be able to finance it live a normal life and dont fall into that category of user. They go to work in their office in the city, go home to their surburbian lifestyle and get another hit. You cant even tell if someones on heroin. The lethargy is only if people are binging on their dosage, taking a larger dose than normal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #11 January 19, 2007 Quotemy bullshit meter is going off. Why would someone lie to me about it? I'm not a user, they aren't scaring me off drugs. These are based on extensive medical studies and reports. I know some of you guys in the US are used to getting lied to by authority but you really should believe some of the stuff your told Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #12 January 19, 2007 I'm sorry Scoop, I know these are not your statistics, nor your words.... but I've dealt with heroin addiction (with a family member) for the past 15 years... and there is no way in hell that drug is good for anyone. g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #13 January 19, 2007 Quote- Cannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 this one for a start. what are the three chemicals? any plant that is burned is going to have potentially carcinogenic hydrocarbons. why would tobacco have only 3? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #14 January 19, 2007 QuoteChronic users may develop collapsed veins, This isnt true, veins dont collapse or withdraw, they harden. This is why users nowadays are educated to rotate their sites. Gone are the days opf seeing people with track marks up their arm or wherever. Quoteinfection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulitis, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration. None of those directly relate to the use of heroin. Do you think theyd use it in medicine if it did all that? QuoteIn addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not readily dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. Again, preperation prevents this and simply things like wiping your skin before injecting prevent pushing dirt and therefore infection into your veins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #15 January 19, 2007 QuoteI'm sorry Scoop, I know these are not your statistics, nor your words.... but I've dealt with heroin addiction (with a family member) for the past 15 years... and there is no way in hell that drug is good for anyone. So have I. My Aunt was a heroin addict, probably still is Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #16 January 19, 2007 Quote- It takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day Here's another one. If we assume a glass = 8 ounces, then 38 glasses would be 2.4 gallons. (An adult human only has a little over 1 gallon of blood, btw) What is the basis for this???? Doesn't it depend on how much you've had to drink the night before? Where TF do they come up with "38 glasses?" what about electrolyte balance?? what is the science behind such a vague statement?? so do I need to go on, or do I have to continue to dissect every single piece of bullshit? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy_Copland 0 #17 January 19, 2007 QuoteEcstacy is the biggest killer amongst drugs often causing the brain to swell and being forced out of gaps in your skull as your body takes on too much water. You feel you need to drink but youur body doesn't get rid of it Well thats out and out crap, sorry Scoop im on the band waggon now buddy! I remember after that girl died (lea betts?) the government went drug nts about ecstacy, one Dr put it along the lines of "over a million tablets sold a week and 2-3 deaths a year"1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #18 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuote- It takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day Here's another one. If we assume a glass = 8 ounces, then 38 glasses would be 2.4 gallons. (An adult human only has a little over 1 gallon of blood, btw) What is the basis for this???? Doesn't it depend on how much you've had to drink the night before? Where TF do they come up with "38 glasses?" what about electroyte balance?? what is the science behind such a vague statement?? so do I need to go on, or do I have to continue to dissect every single piece of bullshit? Haha, we did cover it in depth. I was summarising. This was assuming you drink 20 units of alcohol I believe. By the way. Blood doesnt hold our water content Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 897 #19 January 19, 2007 mine just broke...some of those "facts" are untruths. amazing howmany different versions of the same "official" information there is on this planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites unformed 0 #20 January 19, 2007 Quote It doesnt matter what quality the heroin. When you prepare it for injection all the impurities and additives are removed if the user knows the right techniques. Much like boiling salt water and filtering it afterwards. And I'm sure the guy who's sitting in back of a shady bar wrapping his arm with a red handkerchief just so he can get another hit is really concerned with properly removing the impurities from his heroin. Yes, medical grade heroin in the proper dosage is one of the safest things you can take. Street heroin is neither medical grade nor of a guaranteed strength, nor do people always know what their tolerance is. The first (and only) time I snorted Oxycontin, I did an amount that was normal for the girl who gave it to me. I came very close to becoming a statistic. QuoteBut it was calculated that 3 joints is as harmful as approximately 25-30 cigarettes so the repeated use isnt as neccesary Bullshit. QuoteThen most people are idiots, thats the way it is. Thats why mr big bollocks thinks hes a hard nut cos he can snort lots of lines. Its because its shit quality. Nope. Pure coke is safer and easier on the nose than impure coke and you will fell better as well. With 4% your nose will be burning and you won't WANT to finish it. I would not snort 4% coke if you gave it to me for free, and I bought it, I would throw it away and lose the $100 than spend do that shit to my body. Pure (>90%) goes up like candy and has a clean comedown. QuoteI cant remember the formula obviously but the reaction with alcohol in the body causes a higly toxic product. Your body has to prioritise what chemicals to break down and it finds it difficult dealing with the coktail inside it. THis isnt a myth, this has been proven I call bullshit - from experience.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shotgun 1 #21 January 19, 2007 QuoteWhy would someone lie to me about it? I'm not a user, they aren't scaring me off drugs. These are based on extensive medical studies and reports. I know some of you guys in the US are used to getting lied to by authority but you really should believe some of the stuff your told Ok, show me the extensive medical studies and reports, and I'll see if they change my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #22 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteEcstacy is the biggest killer amongst drugs often causing the brain to swell and being forced out of gaps in your skull as your body takes on too much water. You feel you need to drink but youur body doesn't get rid of it Well thats out and out crap, sorry Scoop im on the band waggon now buddy! I remember after that girl died (lea betts?) the government went drug nts about ecstacy, one Dr put it along the lines of "over a million tablets sold a week and 2-3 deaths a year" Leah Betts was a repeated user despite her parents claims. She took some pills and kept drinking. She drunk 6 litres of water and didnt pass any. Her brain took on the water, swelled and pushed its way out her nose, eye sockets and ears. I know this because I have spoken to someone who studied the medical report and also the father who confirmed this is how she died but he still remains sure this was her first time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites apollard24 0 #23 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteChronic users may develop collapsed veins, This isnt true, veins dont collapse or withdraw, they harden. This is why users nowadays are educated to rotate their sites. Gone are the days opf seeing people with track marks up their arm or wherever. Quoteinfection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulitis, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration. None of those directly relate to the use of heroin. Do you think theyd use it in medicine if it did all that? QuoteIn addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not readily dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. Again, preperation prevents this and simply things like wiping your skin before injecting prevent pushing dirt and therefore infection into your veins. __________________________________________________ I think everyone in their lifetime should watch "Requiem for a Dream". This movie is an eye opener of drug addiction and the effects it has on your body and veinsBreathe out so I can breathe you in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy_Copland 0 #24 January 19, 2007 Not my point. How many E users are there in the UK is my point, every weekend, and how many die a year?1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites narcimund 0 #25 January 19, 2007 This list of factoids has all the hallmarks of opinionated bullshit. Here's a few comments. QuoteIt takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day This is definitely triggering my bullshit meter. In the US, a "glass" of water is typically defined as 6.0 ounces. 38 * 6 = 228 ounces = 1.75 gallons. That's 14 pounds of water! I've been hungover before but I've never shed 14 pounds overnight. Quote85% of people who have mental health issues previously used cannabis Corellations aren't causal statements, but when an educated person drops a corellation without saying so, you can be sure they're trying to get you to believe something that they can't justify with reason. QuoteCannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 Counting chemicals is pointless but it sure does sound aLaRmInG! EEEEK! QuoteAmphetamine use can cause a haemorage (sp?) in the brain due to the over exertion of the body and undue stress caused to it And you can drown in water. Statements that rely on the verb "can" sure are aLaRmInG but meaningless -- thus deeply suspicious. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 1 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
SpeedRacer 1 #16 January 19, 2007 Quote- It takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day Here's another one. If we assume a glass = 8 ounces, then 38 glasses would be 2.4 gallons. (An adult human only has a little over 1 gallon of blood, btw) What is the basis for this???? Doesn't it depend on how much you've had to drink the night before? Where TF do they come up with "38 glasses?" what about electrolyte balance?? what is the science behind such a vague statement?? so do I need to go on, or do I have to continue to dissect every single piece of bullshit? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #17 January 19, 2007 QuoteEcstacy is the biggest killer amongst drugs often causing the brain to swell and being forced out of gaps in your skull as your body takes on too much water. You feel you need to drink but youur body doesn't get rid of it Well thats out and out crap, sorry Scoop im on the band waggon now buddy! I remember after that girl died (lea betts?) the government went drug nts about ecstacy, one Dr put it along the lines of "over a million tablets sold a week and 2-3 deaths a year"1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #18 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuote- It takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day Here's another one. If we assume a glass = 8 ounces, then 38 glasses would be 2.4 gallons. (An adult human only has a little over 1 gallon of blood, btw) What is the basis for this???? Doesn't it depend on how much you've had to drink the night before? Where TF do they come up with "38 glasses?" what about electroyte balance?? what is the science behind such a vague statement?? so do I need to go on, or do I have to continue to dissect every single piece of bullshit? Haha, we did cover it in depth. I was summarising. This was assuming you drink 20 units of alcohol I believe. By the way. Blood doesnt hold our water content Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #19 January 19, 2007 mine just broke...some of those "facts" are untruths. amazing howmany different versions of the same "official" information there is on this planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #20 January 19, 2007 Quote It doesnt matter what quality the heroin. When you prepare it for injection all the impurities and additives are removed if the user knows the right techniques. Much like boiling salt water and filtering it afterwards. And I'm sure the guy who's sitting in back of a shady bar wrapping his arm with a red handkerchief just so he can get another hit is really concerned with properly removing the impurities from his heroin. Yes, medical grade heroin in the proper dosage is one of the safest things you can take. Street heroin is neither medical grade nor of a guaranteed strength, nor do people always know what their tolerance is. The first (and only) time I snorted Oxycontin, I did an amount that was normal for the girl who gave it to me. I came very close to becoming a statistic. QuoteBut it was calculated that 3 joints is as harmful as approximately 25-30 cigarettes so the repeated use isnt as neccesary Bullshit. QuoteThen most people are idiots, thats the way it is. Thats why mr big bollocks thinks hes a hard nut cos he can snort lots of lines. Its because its shit quality. Nope. Pure coke is safer and easier on the nose than impure coke and you will fell better as well. With 4% your nose will be burning and you won't WANT to finish it. I would not snort 4% coke if you gave it to me for free, and I bought it, I would throw it away and lose the $100 than spend do that shit to my body. Pure (>90%) goes up like candy and has a clean comedown. QuoteI cant remember the formula obviously but the reaction with alcohol in the body causes a higly toxic product. Your body has to prioritise what chemicals to break down and it finds it difficult dealing with the coktail inside it. THis isnt a myth, this has been proven I call bullshit - from experience.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #21 January 19, 2007 QuoteWhy would someone lie to me about it? I'm not a user, they aren't scaring me off drugs. These are based on extensive medical studies and reports. I know some of you guys in the US are used to getting lied to by authority but you really should believe some of the stuff your told Ok, show me the extensive medical studies and reports, and I'll see if they change my mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #22 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteEcstacy is the biggest killer amongst drugs often causing the brain to swell and being forced out of gaps in your skull as your body takes on too much water. You feel you need to drink but youur body doesn't get rid of it Well thats out and out crap, sorry Scoop im on the band waggon now buddy! I remember after that girl died (lea betts?) the government went drug nts about ecstacy, one Dr put it along the lines of "over a million tablets sold a week and 2-3 deaths a year" Leah Betts was a repeated user despite her parents claims. She took some pills and kept drinking. She drunk 6 litres of water and didnt pass any. Her brain took on the water, swelled and pushed its way out her nose, eye sockets and ears. I know this because I have spoken to someone who studied the medical report and also the father who confirmed this is how she died but he still remains sure this was her first time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
apollard24 0 #23 January 19, 2007 QuoteQuoteChronic users may develop collapsed veins, This isnt true, veins dont collapse or withdraw, they harden. This is why users nowadays are educated to rotate their sites. Gone are the days opf seeing people with track marks up their arm or wherever. Quoteinfection of the heart lining and valves, abscesses, cellulitis, and liver disease. Pulmonary complications, including various types of pneumonia, may result from the poor health condition of the abuser, as well as from heroin's depressing effects on respiration. None of those directly relate to the use of heroin. Do you think theyd use it in medicine if it did all that? QuoteIn addition to the effects of the drug itself, street heroin may have additives that do not readily dissolve and result in clogging the blood vessels that lead to the lungs, liver, kidneys, or brain. This can cause infection or even death of small patches of cells in vital organs. Again, preperation prevents this and simply things like wiping your skin before injecting prevent pushing dirt and therefore infection into your veins. __________________________________________________ I think everyone in their lifetime should watch "Requiem for a Dream". This movie is an eye opener of drug addiction and the effects it has on your body and veinsBreathe out so I can breathe you in... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #24 January 19, 2007 Not my point. How many E users are there in the UK is my point, every weekend, and how many die a year?1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #25 January 19, 2007 This list of factoids has all the hallmarks of opinionated bullshit. Here's a few comments. QuoteIt takes roughly 38 glasses of water to rehyrdrate yourself the next day This is definitely triggering my bullshit meter. In the US, a "glass" of water is typically defined as 6.0 ounces. 38 * 6 = 228 ounces = 1.75 gallons. That's 14 pounds of water! I've been hungover before but I've never shed 14 pounds overnight. Quote85% of people who have mental health issues previously used cannabis Corellations aren't causal statements, but when an educated person drops a corellation without saying so, you can be sure they're trying to get you to believe something that they can't justify with reason. QuoteCannabis has approximately 37 carcinogenic (sp?)chemicals whereas a cigarette has 3 Counting chemicals is pointless but it sure does sound aLaRmInG! EEEEK! QuoteAmphetamine use can cause a haemorage (sp?) in the brain due to the over exertion of the body and undue stress caused to it And you can drown in water. Statements that rely on the verb "can" sure are aLaRmInG but meaningless -- thus deeply suspicious. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
