Ideas on minimizing damage?

[Jwelborn 0]

Having read the thread on hard openings and some accounts of hard landings I have a question. What can we do to limit the injury sustained from either an ugly opening or landing? The only things I could think of that might help are using a light-weight helmet (obviously camera fliers can’t), and trying to build up muscle in your back and neck. Not sure if either would really help. Hopefully I won’t ever have to test it but trying to be prepared.

[phoenixlpr 0]

There is no silver bullet.

[DougH 270]

You could buy a pilot!!! While I heard rumors that the smaller ones spank you here and there, the big ones open like a dream.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[phoenixlpr 0]

Buy what?

Are you talking about buying an Aerodyne Pilot ?
Why do you think that I need one more?
I love my Cobalt anyway.

[DougH 270]

Were you asking for advice? I wasn't replying to you directly, you were just the next post in line. Don't flatter yourself, besides even if I wasn't full of shiet you still wouldn't want to listen.

I think one of the biggest ways to avoid a hard opening is to avoid canopies that have a propensity to whack you.

A light helmet isn't going to help much, we already have a really heavy mellon on our shoulders.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skydiverek 63]

Here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2567055#2567055

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[phoenixlpr 0]

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I wasn't replying to you directly, you were just the next post in line.

I hope you know what you are doing. Is that so hard to push reply on that message you want to reply?

Anyway I have chosen my Pilot, because of having a good reputation of nice openings.

When I bought my Cobalt I was told that Cobalts are not the same. There are good ones and bad ones.

I love my canopies they open really soft.

Any canopy can open hard even if it was packed correctly, but some is more famous of hard openings.

[DougH 270]

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I hope you know what you are doing. Is that so hard to push reply on that message you want to reply?

About as hard as reading some context into a post, especially considering the OP was the only one asking a question about hard openings, but I digress!!!

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[wmw999 2,560]

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What can we do to limit the injury sustained from either an ugly opening or landing?

Most of the time, the better your physical condition, the more you'll minimize injury. Learn to PLF, and practice it regularly, and be ready to PLF on every single landing. Control your body position during your opening sequence.


Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[skybytch 273]

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I think one of the biggest ways to avoid a hard opening is to avoid canopies that have a propensity to whack you.

I fly a Spectre specifically because I have three fused vertebrae in my lower back and at least one disc going out in my neck - I need slow openings. My previous Spectre whacked me hard enough to break two lines a few years ago.

Any canopy can whack you.

[AggieDave 6]

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You could buy a pilot!!! While I heard rumors that the smaller ones spank you here and there, the big ones open like a dream.

You're kidding, right? Any canopy can give you a serious injury hard opening at any time. Doesn't matter what marketing hype you believe. It doesn't matter what the guys at your DZ said. Any canopy can hurt you. There is no magic canopy that will open perfect 100% of the time.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[DougH 270]

OK correct me if I am wrong please, any canopy can whack you, but some are more prone than others, and some are more sensitive to packing than others.

If I am completely wrong please fill me in, but I have been whacked by a Saber, and have yet to be whacked by any of the pilots I have jumped. No difference in packing, similar number of jumps on the line sets.

I have good body position, de arch out of my track before I pull, and make good line stows. The only variable has been the canopies.

I am not saying 100% of the time it is going to open great, but I think it helps stack the odds in your favor if you jump a snively canopy, and pack it well.

If I am wrong then all you can do is pack well, keep good line stows, don't deploy over speed, keep good body position, and take your chances. What else am I missing?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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If I am wrong then all you can do is pack well, keep good line stows, don't deploy over speed, keep good body position, and take your chances. What else am I missing?

Keep the canopy in trim.

Openings on spectra lined canopies change as the lines shrink.

[councilman24 37]

Spend LOTS and LOTS of time learning how to PLF. I know you won't but those of us that have been around awhile, like Wendy, learned to PLF becaue we HAD to jumping rounds. PLF training at are DZ used to end up from the roof of a pick up truck forward and backwards right and left. Many many times dropping automatically into a PLF or some resemblence of one has saved my bones. I've never got injured on landing but sure could have.

I really am glad that I spanned the time period I have in the sport. Learning on military surplus, owning a round as my first rig but skipping some things like ropes and rings.
As to openings I prefer mine what most new jumpers would call hard. I demoed an early spectre and was happy with the 700' openings on a 2000' hop and pop. My Sabre and Triathlon open just fine. Spank me even harder once in a while. But I've never been hurt by an opening either. Keeping your shoulders level and a little head high helps also. Listen to the comment about keeping it in trim, but don't obsess on it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[billvon 3,090]

>Any canopy can give you a serious injury hard opening at any time.

Of course. Pilots are simply less likely to.

[AggieDave 6]

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>Any canopy can give you a serious injury hard opening at any time.

Of course. Pilots are simply less likely to.

Not simply just "Pilots" or "Spectres." I would argue that modern canopy designs are less likely to give you an opening hard enough to injury you or damage your gear. You being sponsered by Aerodyne by accepting their instructor's program, I would assume you would state that the pilot is a great canopy. Its not the only good canopy on the market, there are quite a few canopies in that class of canopy that could be considered a great canopy. Depends on what someone wants out of how a canopy flies and what they want in a company. That also goes back to trusting, or not, what a sponsered jumper says about their sponsered gear.

Does that mean that on a modern canopy design that a hard opening won't happen? Nope. Even with good packing and a modern canopy that typically opens well, it can and will get you at some point.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,090]

>Its not the only good canopy on the market, there are quite a
>few canopies in that class of canopy that could be considered a
>great canopy.

I'm not talking about great canopies, just openings. In that class, I'd consider the Sabre 2, the Safire 2 and the Pilot to be in about the same class - and in my experience the Pilot has the most consistent openings. For swooping I'd probably go with the Sabre 2 over the Pilot. It's all in what you want.

[AggieDave 6]

See, having jumped all three of those canopies in multipul sizes as well, I disagree with you.

I agree that the Sabre2 *can* be pushed harder then the Pilot, I state that the Sabre2 has better openings by far, except for the Safire2 which had incredible openings similar to those of a Crossfire2.

That goes back to my original post and how I clarified in the next post. Any canopy can spank you at any time. Regardless of design and that I don't trust sponsered jumper's opinions. I will demo the gear and make my own opinion. I advise those who ask me to do the same. Demo canopies are cheap and easy to come by, jump it all in the size and class that's appropiate for you and make your own decision.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[wmw999 2,560]

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but those of us that have been around awhile, like Wendy

You calling me old Watch out, sonny, or I'll come chasing you with my cane.

To the OP: Learn how the canopy feels as it's opening. That way you'll know when to be mostly sitting up for the brunt of it. I too prefer what most people consider to be hard openings. I have several hundred jumps on a notable spanker (the Starlite), which I liked. But I knew exactly when everything was going to happen.

You can't completely prevent that freak of nature. But I've only had 2 notably hard openings. One was definitely my fault, the other one I just don't know how it was my fault, but it probably was. I rarely use packers, so I know how the slider is and everything else.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[councilman24 37]

Not old! Experienced!

I have some trouble with sensitivity in along my spine that developed during a 16 hour drive. Still there. Went to a back guy. He took xrays and did radioactive tracer studies and found nothing wrong. In fact he was surprised how good mine spine looked when I told him I had 2500 jumps. That using a PC, a Strato Cloud, a Cirrus Cloud, a Raven IV a Manta (after a serverly broken ankle joint) a Sabre 190, a Sabre 170, and a Triathlon 190. None like the "soft" long opening canopies developed lately.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Regardless of design and that I don't trust sponsered jumper's opinions.

Ok. So trust me. I'm not sponsored and I had 353 jumps most on Pilot150 and some on Pilot140.

I love my Cobalt135 too. That is opening even softer.

[Jwelborn 0]

Thanks everyone! I was not trying to start a canopy debate. I understand that whatever the canopy, any bad landings or hard openings would most likely be my fault. Just trying to keep from hurting myself when i make a mistake.

I will practice PLFs often.

[rhys 0]

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You're kidding, right? Any canopy can give you a serious injury hard opening at any time. Doesn't matter what marketing hype you believe. It doesn't matter what the guys at your DZ said. Any canopy can hurt you. There is no magic canopy that will open perfect 100% of the time.

I call BS.

you are/were a crossfire man no? have you been spanked by one of them deploying on your belly?

I did 800 jumps on one and never had anything near a hard opening and only a couple of line twists.

I used to shake and wrap it on busy days, once i did 18 camera jumps in a day packing tham all myself and i can tell you i did not spend time sorting the canopy out.

spectres are able to spank because the lines are made of spectra and the canopy goes out of trim with use. vecran lined crossfires do not spank. i have never heard of it and as far as i know the pilots are good too. they are new though and i don't know what lines thay use.

there are canopies that are majic and open sof 99.9 % of the time

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[rhys 0]

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I understand that whatever the canopy, any bad landings or hard openings would most likely be my fault. Just trying to keep from hurting myself when i make a mistake.

This is where you are wrong. you are a newbie and people will try to sell you all kinds of shit as your first gear because they want money for the crap they have collecting dust in the closet.

openings and landings are mostly effected by the design of the canopy.

These days you can get modern equipment for a good price. you are asking the correct questions at the correct place. I will suggest Icarus canopies as I am sponsered by NZAerosports (Icarus/Daedalus canopies) and others will suggest others that they are sponsered by or simply prefer.

for a beginner the best would be a docile canopy with good flare. If you get one that is also designed to open well because most are not then your chances of hurting youself become much less. Also the choice of lines is important.

I know Icarus canopies are designed to open soft and they are setting new standards in the equipment industry.

They have the Safire2, the Omega and the Omni that would be appropriate for you. all of thier canopies are lined with Vectran or HMA because it does not go out of trim. Vectran is what you want so you canopy stays in trim until it needs to be relined. people get hurt when thier canopies go out of trim through use, this is most common on spectra lined canopies.

Do not buy brand new gear for your first equipment (unless you have heaps of money) as you will grow out of it quickly. do resaerch as you are doing and ask as many peole that are willing to give you advice. prefarably experienced people.

Never listen to only one persons advice(some people have some funny ideas?) and when different people start saying the same thing you may be onto something.

The most popular is not nessecarely the best!

Good Luck and be safe.


Rhys

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[skybytch 273]

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I did 800 jumps on one and never had anything near a hard opening and only a couple of line twists.

By this logic, the fact that I've done over 1100 jumps without a reserve ride means that I'm never going to have one.