Silhouette 210

[Scubadivemaster 3]

I'm hoping for some information on the flight characteristics of a PD Silhouette 210.

My exit weight is about 225, and I have been jumping a Spectre 230. A Silhouette 210 came with my rig when I bought it used, but PD's charts show that only an Exp. jumper should use this canopy at my wing loading, so I bought the Spectre 230 as a first canopy. Over the past month I have jumped my wife's Spectre 190 and a Spectre 170 several times (while Strong had my rig doing some mods). I feel very comfortable under either of those canopies, and have had no problems flying or landing them.

Anyone experienced with the Silhouette that can give me some advice on how it will handle differently? I just got my rig back, and don't really want to go back to the 230. It is a fine canopy, but at 1:1 is a bit like being attached to a cloud.

I'm sure from reading these forums that some readers will tell me that I have downsized way to fast, but I think it should be taken into consideration that the 230 was a really conservative first canopy, and after 30 jumps on it, I am only now going to what might have been an appropriate first canopy.

Thanks for the input!

(Please understand, if you are familiar with the Silhouette, and agree with PD that it is deceptively advanced even at 1:1, I want to hear that. Better that than people visiting me in the hospital telling me that any idiot knew I shouldn't jump a Silhouette.)

[FlyinseivLP2 0]

The problem with a silhouette is that it is a hybrid canopy. F 111 and ZP. It will not have the same flare power as the Spectre. Therefore it takes more skill to land it.
Now, how was a canopy loaded at 1:1 really conservative? Most would say you shouldn't(or couldn't) jump anything smaller till you had over 100 jumps. I really don't see a big problem with going down to a 210, it's more the way you speak in the post. Just because you FEEL comfortable flying and landing a canopy doesn't mean you are ready for it. When you can say you are comfortable landing it in a parking lot or backyard then MAYBE you are ready. I would stick with the Spectre and downsize to a more appropriate canopy when you are ready.

[Scubadivemaster 3]

First, thank you for your advice.

As far as it being really conservative at 1:1, I would have to say that some of that is the fact that we are talking about a very large canopy, which as you know is less responsive at 1:1 than a smaller canopy of the same design at the same wing loading. My wife flying her 190 Spectre at much lighter wing loading is flying a much more responsive and aggressive canopy than my 230 at 1:1.

As far as feeling comfortable under the 190 and the 170 Spectre, I do, but you will notice that I am not planning on downsizing to one of those. I know that my 230 is going to be a lot more forgiving in some situations, and while I will readily jump it in 14Kt winds, I wouldn't jump the 170 or 190. What I am looking for is a compromise, and I am hoping that the Silhouette 210 fits that bill. Unfortunately, from the PD charts, my weight under a Silhouette 210 is as aggressive as under a Spectre 170. I just have a hard time accepting that this is the case, based on wing loading and that so many people seem to recommend the Silhouette as a starter canopy. Since I already HAVE the Silhouette 210, I would like to jump it, but am here asking questions first.

[Kolla 0]

Hey Scuba!

I would recommend that you contact PD and get a demo of the Silhouette 230 and compare that directly to the Spectre 230. Doing it the "apples to apples" way will give you the best grounds to compare the two canopies. Call up Kim who runs the demo program at PD, she has quite a few jumps under the Silhouette and a lot of experience with the Spectre, so she will be able to relate to where you are coming from very well.

My hunch is that you will enjoy flying the Silhouette - it's a great canopy. The top skin being zero p gives you a strong performer and the hybrid construction makes it very nice and easy to pack (compared to the fully zero p models).
The wingloading recommendations for the Silhouette are intentionally very conservative - they were done with young jumpers in mind.
The canopy can handle higher loadings just fine, but as with any model, the smaller the canopy or the higher the loading, the more skilled the pilot needs to be in order to land the canopy.

I would definitely recommend talking to your instructors or the S&TA at your DZ about your thoughts, those people are likely much better equipped to give you advice than us on DZ.com.

Blue ones,
Kolla Kolbeinsdottir
Performance Designs, Inc.

Blue Skies Magazine

[packerboy 3]

The fact that you are concerned enough to be asking questions.. and being smart about it..

If you lend that sort of mindset to actually flying and landing that canopy.. ie. open high, practice flares, and start on a bit of a windy day... you'll be fine on the 210 Silhouette.

My gf flies a Silhouette loaded about 1.2:1 at 250 jumps and does fine. She comes in a bit quick sometimes.. but performing cautious straight in approaches, she's done good, and yes she has put it down between powerlines and trees downwind in a small yard on a terrible spot without a problem. (It wasn't gracious, but it worked)

Don't take canopy loading advice on DZ.com though, talk to your instructors.

My guess: Your instructors will tell you to go for it.

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Scoop 0]

I got a 210 Silhouette and my exit weight probably similar. Not an experienced canopy pilot so cant tell you alot other than its enough to be good fun and not scary at the same time if your sensible with your approaches. Although wingloading might look quite high, that beast creates a LOT of drag!

[Scubadivemaster 3]

Thank you all for the information and thoughts. My fear was that there was something mystical and mysterious about the Silhouette that made it behave so radically that only an expert should jump it with anything close to 1:1 loading. I can see from the answers I have received that this is not the case. People at my DZ are familiar with the silhouette, but no one had jumped one, and were as unsure as I was why the wingloading recommendations were so conservative.

I hooked it up and packed it today, and it certainly packs nice! One of my instructors (who has been letting me use his Spectre 170) is going to jump the Silhouette first to let me know if he thinks it is appropriate for my skill level.

Kolla, I appreciate you recommendations and info. What a sport this is that people from the manufacturer care enough to give you their input. Try getting that sort of support from a scuba equipment manufacturer!

Thanks again for the thoughts, I'll let you know how it turns out.

[DSE 5]

I've got about 150 jumps on a Silhouette 230, love it. Sweet, soft openings, very responsive, lands great, although it took me a few landings to completely figure it out so I wasn't running hard to stay standing.
Now I've got a 210 as the next canopy in my progression; My exit weight is approx 215 or just a hair less,depending on which set up I'm wearing. I transitioned to it very easily. BTW, I went from a PD 230 9 cell to the Silhouette 230, but the flight characteristics are radically different.
I wish I knew why the Silhouette isn't more popular, because after jumping several of the larger canopy models, it was my fave.

[packerboy 3]

You'll know why when a Katana or Crossfire or VX or Velocity is your new fave!

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Thunderbow 1]

I jumped a Sil230 all of this summer. My exit weight is around 260. Took awhile to get the landings down and still have to run (or butt slide one out). You shouldn't have any trouble at your exit weight. My 2 cents would be to give it a try, be conservative, but see what you think. I'm 52 and my legs aren't what they used to be and I didn't have any trouble.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

[riggerrob 643]

I wish I knew why the Silhouette isn't more popular, because after jumping several of the larger canopy models, it was my fave.

[bisqit999 0]

I have about 80 jumps on my Silhouette 190. It flies really nice but it doesn't seem to have too much flair power. I have trouble standing up the landing when there is low winds. Opens softly and packs really nice.