mandatory phys. ed requirments in universities

[spiccoli 0]

for an exam, im giving a persuasive speech on mandatory PE requirements, and need to conduct a survey and gather public opinion(s) to refference. i am taking the position that a minimal (minimal does not have to be defined for the speech, but use a 1hr class every other day for a reference point) fitness requirement be implemented. here is why:
1. benifits students- many studies and physicaly active people will attest that they perfom at a better level academicaly and personaly when engaged in some sort of consistent excercise program (in any form, not necc. vigerous). however, majority of students do not make time nor have the discipline to do this on there own. therfore, a program would have to be mandatory. not to mention the stress level of college and phys.activities ability to cope with it.(in my speech, i will back up my claim that excercise benefits mental ability with medical research before i proceed to say that a program should be mandatory.)
2. in institutions that are desinged to provide students a well rounded experience and give them tools to succeed in the outside world, why is the most important tool (yes, this is a subjective claim that i will have to back up), the body, neglected?
3. 2/3rds of americans are already overweight, and the trend is ony growing. when health related problems due to overweight and obesity are impacting the economy (ill have to find specific stats), it no longer becomes a choice that affects only the individual, but the whole nation. i dont want to get into gov. policy, but i think this is an interesting claim.

thats all i have so far. what are some other strong points to make in favor of fitness requirements? also, i need arguments and counter arguments, so critics welcome. not that you needed an invite around here. however keep in mind this is not about government policy imposed on citizens (this would be another interesting topic though) so the knee jerk response of 'the government shouldnt tell me how to live my life' doesnt apply here. this is about university requirements and if universities should implement their own PE requirements as part of a curriculum. theres a lot to be elaborated on, i know. but im in a hurry, so please delve in, so i can see where it goes and develop my thoughts further.

we need to talk about your flare..

[ladyskydiver 0]

I'd avoid any university/college that required PE. All it would be is another way for the school to collect additional $$$$$$.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[tdog 0]

I went to a school where 4 semesters of PE was required.

Credit # 1 - PE 101... Three days a week. Run, Swim, Aerobics
Credits 2 - 4... electives.

My teacher, Patty Bright, for the "base training" and for one of the electives - was the equivalent of a superhuman.

At 60 years old, she taught 5 hours straight - and ran for 5 hours... She would run next to me for a few minutes, then sprint up to the next person...

The second time I had her - it was "hiking". I called it "running in beautiful places." It was a 3 hour class to allow for drive time, and we went on 20 hikes that semester ranging from runs along the Pacific Coast Highway to runs up Malibu Canyon State Park...

All I can say is - I was the thinnest I ever have been after her class... But, I can't say it stuck. I am now trying to lose another 10 pounds to get back to where I want to be...

Oh, the other two semesters were weight training. One was in a classroom, the next I had a personal trainer because I was involved in an amino acid study and got one-on-one training and got a credit for it....

I don't think the school requires the PE anymore.... Too bad, Patty Bright is probably still running that track at age 70.

[tdog 0]

I just looked it up...

Indeed, the school no longer requires the PE credits...

They now require a lot more sitting in front of computers.

[spiccoli 0]

was this in college? did you go to pepperdine? thats the only college i can think of by malibu canyon and the pch. that is in fact where i go to school, and no, there are no more pe requirements which is why i chose this subject.yikes, that patty bright sounds like a hardy bag of salt and will probably out live us all.

we need to talk about your flare..

[karenmeal 0]

Frankly, I don't think a couple of extra college requirements are going to have an effect on the obesity epedimic. Besides, I do not think that is what college is for. I would be really irritated if my college required that. I go to school to learn in order to support my future career. A class in weight training or something would not assist me in my future career. Not to mention I already have a work out routine that I adhere to.

College is not the place to try and fix the obesity epedimic. Not to mention the fact that an education is already so costly in this country, but people at that age are already fairly set in their ways. Habits need to be changed earlier on to have any sort of tangible effect. Cafeterias in elementary school need to have good, fresh, healthy options. PE classes in elementary school should not be sacrificed in order to spend more time studying for a standardized test.

I need more coffee before I try to develop a better argument.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[skymama 37]

Can you change it to being a requirement in grade school? I agree with all of your points, but I think PE has more of an impact if it is learned to be part of a lifestyle at a young age instead of trying to implement it after someone is an adult with years of bad habits under their belts.

Quite interestingly, I just heard on the news last week that our new Governor in FL wants to make PE a requirement again. They dropped it to allow for more learning time to pass standardized tests and at the same time, childhood obesity increased in our country. Things that make you go hmmmm.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[tdog 0]

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was this in college? did you go to pepperdine? thats the only college i can think of by malibu canyon and the pch. that is in fact where i go to school, and no, there are no more pe requirements which is why i chose this subject.yikes, that patty bright sounds like a hardy bag of salt and will probably out live us all.

In order:

*Yes - in college

*Yes - at Pepperdine

*There are other schools too.
*So I found out by looking at your curriculum. No more PE.

*Another interesting note about Patty Bright... In 1993 her house burned down in the fire. She did not miss a day of work and did not tell us until the end of the semester that she never stopped running - I mean working - because of things like her house burning down and, if I remember correctly, the death of her husband (not in the fire)... She was a workhorse.

Enjoy Pepperdine... Despite the fact I am not religious and went to the school for other reasons, it was the best four years of my life...

And oh, now that I see convocation is now a "class" with "credits" and "grades"

(for those of you who don't go to Pepperdine, "Convocation", when I went, was a weekly assembly of all of the students, with assigned seats for attendance reasons, where a wide range of guest speakers came to motivate us all with themes that ranged from uber-conservative to very conservative topics, such as not having sex before marriage, spreading Christianity to the world in summer programs, etc. Right as I was leaving in 1997 they started to allow alternate ways to earn the credit)


You cannot borrow my letter to the dean that explains why I should not be required to attend convo - that actually worked... This was in the day when ditching convo did not cause a sacrifice in a grade and credit unit, but put you on the deans list and eventually kicked you out of school. I put together a pretty convincing argument using multiple medical studies showing how many hours per sleep were required each day, plus wording from the student handbook that documented how many hours of homework were required per credit unit (and I was taking 21 per semester), plus a copy of my scholarship contract that showed I was required to work X hours per semester in the department of the scholarship - and proved I had a 20 hour a week deficit of time, along with a full business plan of how to make up this time. Ditching convo was one of the ways...

Back on topic.... You could do a study of students at Pepperdine... I lost 15 pounds my freshman year and held it off all 4 years. I wonder if the weight of the average student has stayed the same, gone up, or gone down, now that PE is over????

[tdog 0]

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Frankly, I don't think a couple of extra college requirements are going to have an effect on the obesity epedimic. Besides, I do not think that is what college is for.

It turns out the original poster and I went to the same college... The reason why it was a PE credit when I went to Pepperdine between 1993 to 1997, was because the school has always claimed to try to mold the complete person, spiritually, mentally, physically, etc...

I am not religious at all, but the school is very Church of Christ. You have to accept that if you want to go to the school. Granted, from my professors I still talk to often (and I have even gone back as a guest speaker for classes), the new President of the school has made the school even more religious which worries me because sometimes the very religious professors were experts in religion but were not experts in the field they taught...

It used to be pretty mainstream except for three semesters of a religion class required - two of which were Christian-centric, and a weekly school assembly of "convocation" that started with a prayer and had religious topics.... So someone like me, who is frustrated with organized religion, could tolerate it knowing I was earning a degree in my field of study that was far superior than my peers at other schools - simply due to class size in my major (two to three students per professor).


I won't even try to compare the school to a boot camp in a military school, but at the same time Pepperdine is far different from the other schools where students live off campus, show up only for class, and have no community. The PE requirement was part of a vision, that students quite frankly had to accept, and if they did not accept, then were picking a school that did not meet their goals.

If nothing else, the strict rules of no sex on campus required students to burn calories some other way.

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[ExAFO 0]

Unfortunately, I'd say no. People have a right to be fat bastards if they want to...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Thanatos340 1]

The college I went required 7 Credit hours of P.E. for any BA or BS.
This was the old Quarter System. For all other courses you earned 1 Credit Hour for each Hour you spent in Class room per week with the exception of PE courses. You spent 2 Hours per week in Class for every credit hour earned.

For those of us paying 100% of our own way through. This was a Major pain in the ass. Something I thought was completely useless and worthless. Having to work 3 jobs and take on a full load was plenty. I didn’t need to waste 2 hours a week on something so educational as Bowling, Archery, Fencing, or other such non-sense.

Another MAJOR issue I had with this was the "Athletics Fee" that the college charged. This was not a Major university so the Football team was an expense. That meant that every Student was required to pay an extra $200 per quarter as an Athletics fee. In no way did I see this as anything other than a complete waste of money. In-State tuition at that time was only $700 per quarter (Yes, This was QUITE a few years ago), Having a $200 Athletics fee on top of that really cut into money for Books and other necessities.

[TrophyHusband 0]

i wouldn't mind if my college required PE (boise state). if it did, there would likely be classes in rock climbing, wilderness navigation, or kayaking.

currently i'm taking classes at mountain home air force base which meet once a week for three hours. most of the time i go to the gym for about an hour and a half before classes. i notice a huge difference in my ability to concentrate between times i work out and times i don't. whether it is required or not it definately help academically.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[tbrown 26]

My college had a Phys Ed requirement for all students, but dropped the requirement - less basic swimming proficiencey, after my second year.

I resented having to do it. I liked the outdoors anyway; hiking, camping, skydiving. Sometimes I'd be motivated to run 3 - 5 miles fairly regularly. A large portion of the student body were PE majors, so it was understandable that they would/should have extensive ongoing requirements if they were going to teach it someday. But I resented having to schedule the time to keep taking the kind of gym classes I hated so much in high school.

Perhaps most telling was the fencing class I signed up for just before the requirement was dropped. I never attended a single class. I thought it would be interesting, maybe even fun, but I was too jammed writing papers and all that other happy shit that piles up at the end of the year. Inspite of never attending a single class, I received a passing grade. So their system was out of control anyway and it's just as well they dropped it.

The swimming requirement I passed no problemo, without having to take any classes. I think it's a basic survival skill everyone should have. I'm not kidding to say they kept the pool open on graduation day to hustle a few desperate seniors through so they could get their diplomas.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[gonzalesna 0]

Unless that mandatory PE is free, I'd have to say no. High school is more than just business education. PE is required there along with a few other things because people need to at least be exposed to the benefits and various activities associated with physical education. In college, you've got a set goal to get you out into the job field. I hear about how college tuition rates continue to climb, making it more and more difficult for students to pay for their classes. Requiring physical education in addition would only worsen the situation, as well as cause delay time in the graduation of many students, as many work to pay their bills, putting limits on how much time they have for school. Most students are crammed with homework, causing them to stay up very late. Adding another class will just add to the lack of sleep and difficulties associated with cramming.

Not to mention the fact that once you're an adult, you shouldn't be made to exercise. If you don't want to put your health up front on your list of priorities, that's your issue. No one can make you be physically fit, but don't get upset when you're the butt end of ridicule, lack an active sex life, etc. Those downsides don't accompany all obese people, but they do for many. I know many people that work hard, play hard, party hard, and still have time for a good run at least once a week. Under 18, they're still learning good and bad habits... PE is a perfect example of a good habit to build and work on. Once they're 18, however, they're adults. Let them make the decision to be such.

Just a few of my thoughts.

Some people refrain from beating a dead horse. Personally, I find a myriad of entertainment value when beating it until it becomes a horse-smoothie.

[Jeff.Donohue 0]

I know that Brandeis requires two semesters of PE and MIT requires four (had a discussion about this with a friend of mine the other day, strangely enough).

On top of the semester long courses, both schools have a swim test requirement (basically, don't drown for 10 minutes).

Not a lot of good arguments for it, other than it justifies the cost of facilities improvements (a.k.a., shiny new gymnasiums). Kind of a silly argument though (you don't need the gym if you don't have the requirements).

I took karate and fencing. Wanted to take marksmanship but was closed out. (Marksmanship also didn't use the gym, so that cuts against my explanation).

Good luck.

[Mark24688m 0]

Im not paying $400 to take a stretching class when it has nothing to do with my major. Bullshit.

[willard 0]

Nope. Requiring students to take a PE class would only get the unwilling to do a minimal amount of excersize and only for the length of the term. After they complete the requirement it's back to Twinkies and TV. Students who want to stay fit and active will do so without being required.

[turtlespeed 226]

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Nope. Requiring students to take a PE class would only get the unwilling to do a minimal amount of excersize and only for the length of the term. After they complete the requirement it's back to Twinkies and TV. Students who want to stay fit and active will do so without being required.

So - what kind of control would you have over the student body if you didn't make them do things that they didn't want to do?

I mean - what power would you be showing if you let them do whatever you wanted?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Nightingale 0]

When I was in college, I was doing at least 20 hours a week of karate, plus three hours a day of dance. I'd have been really pissed off if my school required additional training, especially if it involved running. I HATE running. If a college student hasn't learned the value of exercise by the time they're in college, an extra phys ed class or two is just going to make them resent exercise even more. Forcing someone to do something is a surefire way to make sure they're not going to do it voluntarily.

[spiccoli 0]

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but the school is very Church of Christ. You have to accept that if you want to go to the school

this is still semi true. i am church of christ, and they gave me a generous scholarship for that reason because i think they are trying to salvage their reputation as a christian school. however, from what i have observed (keeping in mind this is my first semester) it is not as conservative as people think.my biology professors teach evolution theory in cells and christians (ones that actualy walk the walk,not ones that have just been raised in a christian family ect.) are a minority. heck, my suite mates take a six pack to the shower every night. it seems to be a pretty multi-faceted atmosphere.

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started with a prayer and had religious topics.

yep, still starts with a prayer, but the topics seem to be more worldy related in a general sense i.e. aids, darfur, sex trafficing ect. there wasnt mcuh of a religious spin put on the ones i went to, although ofcourse there is still prayer and christian references. but ive only been to five, which is why your little ploy that got you out of that pickle has my interest.

im loving pepperdine. it is a unique atmosphere here and there is a lot of opportunity. the science department is kicking my kiester though. if you have any advice on beating the convo system, im all ears. i consider myself a christian, but christian or not, convo credit is just a hassle.

we need to talk about your flare..

[spiccoli 0]

thanks friends. this has been really helpful in helping me develop counter arguments. here is a reply to some of the points made:
first of all, here you dont pay for each credit once you are a full time student. in other words, 12 units costs the same as 18, so there would be no extra cost.
PE doesnt have anything to do with my major- not directly, but niether does the fine arts credits and GE's that you pay for that most schools in teh US require. i firmly believe somone who is fit will perform better in most other aspects of life than if they werent. it wil result in more confidence, mental focus, and overall first impressions that could put you ahead of the game in the businuess world. sounds like a stretch, but there is actualy strong research for this, and people that ARE fit can attest to it. this being the case, if a university is going to prepare you to cope with life after college, why not include the physical aspect. jobs will come and go, but youre body is all you are gauranteed for the rest of your life, so why shouldnt learning how to take care of it as important as learnign how to obtain a career that is not gauranteed. the truth is, most students dont have the time or discipline to keep a regimine, so if it was part of the curriculum, problem solved. the younger people start exercising, the more likely they are to continue later in life, therefore reeking the benifits, especialy as they age when health becomes more critical.

economicaly- as one poster said, no, PE in college wil probably not make a huge impact. but it should be part of a collective effort that beggins in elementary school. over time, perhaps the dammage of overweight and obesity will start to minimize. either way, at the current rate, health related issues plus missed work days due to obesity IS damaging the economy.

maybe a question i should have asked to those that had mandatory PE is, putting aside your feelings of the policy, did you feel better and more health physically and mentaly than when you left college/stop taking them. there are plenty of classes that will always be a hassle and i dont like, but whether they benifited me and prepared me for life is the main issue.

we need to talk about your flare..

[Shotgun 1]

I think that they should have some type of health/fitness requirement... maybe something that could be filled either with PE, health science, nutrition, etc.

[popsjumper 2]

Good thing it's a speech and not a written exam. For a college guy, your spelling, grammar and punctuation is atrocious. I was EE and even I noticed it.


For the record, I reservedly support mandatory physical education at all levels of public education. The reservation is that it should be along the lines of the military's physical training standard.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[turtlespeed 226]

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Good thing it's a speech and not a written exam. For a college guy, your spelling, grammar and punctuation is atrocious. I was EE and even I noticed it.


For the record, I reservedly support mandatory physical education at all levels of public education. The reservation is that it should be along the lines of the military's physical training standard.

But you're OLD school.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[willard 0]

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Nope. Requiring students to take a PE class would only get the unwilling to do a minimal amount of excersize and only for the length of the term. After they complete the requirement it's back to Twinkies and TV. Students who want to stay fit and active will do so without being required.

So - what kind of control would you have over the student body if you didn't make them do things that they didn't want to do?

I mean - what power would you be showing if you let them do whatever you wanted?

I believe all traditional students (young 'uns) should be required to take a life skills class to reinforce (or learn) common sense. After most of the winter here was mild, we got hit by a cold spell that had temps down around 0 F. and winds gusting in the 20-30 mph range. You'd think kids would have sense enough to forget fashion for a while and dress sensibly, but evidently some don't. I saw kids, girls mostly, getting out of their cars and walking to class dressed like it was spring time.