Small main, big reserve, heavy weight.

[jeiber 0]

I'm getting ready to downsize, and I'm running into problems finding a container that will hold my desired main/reserve combination. Looking over previous threads on Main vs. Reserve sizing, I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the pros and cons. Looking for some thoughts and suggestions on container manufacturer and reserve sizing:

6'3", 240lbs, athletic build
Jav Odyss J4, PD Reserve 176, VN150 Airlocked Main

Need a container to hold a Katana 135 or (possibly) 120, eventually will be moving to a Velo 120.

Now the tricky part - reserve size. Sunpath's container sizing isn't compatible with my combination. Mirage will accept a reserve around 150sqft with my main combination, but that's over a 1.7 loading on a reserve.

Some random thoughts that are going through my mind in trying to figure out what to do:
- already had a reserve ride on my PDR176. Flies like a dream. Have no doubts on my ability to safely land the reserve at least one size smaller in a tight landing area.
- will rig look/fit strange with this combination?
- what is it that I don't know about about this combination?
- how much smaller of a reserve can I safely jump? (physical limitations of reserve)

Any advice/experiance would be appreciated - especially coming from a larger person flying a HP canopy.

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[BIGUN 1,486]

WingsEXT
They'll build it to disparate sizes of mains/reserves.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

I'm getting ready to downsize, and I'm running into problems finding a container that will hold my desired main/reserve combination. Looking over previous threads on Main vs. Reserve sizing, I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the pros and cons. Looking for some thoughts and suggestions on container manufacturer and reserve sizing:

Sunrise Rigging (Wings) and Jump Shack (Racer) will build you containers for any combination of main + reserve you want but won't promise that they'll look pretty.

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- how much smaller of a reserve can I safely jump? (physical limitations of reserve)

Depends on what DZ conditions you limit yourself too (A 5000' field elevation on a hot summer day requires a canopy two sizes bigger to have the same speed and descent rate you have at standard sea level conditions) and how you define safe.

[AggieDave 6]

I have the same Wings W-13 (old container sizing, size) that I have a PD-r 176 and a Velo 120 in. I'm 276lbs out the door, 6'1" shaped like a brick with a gut.

Anyways, the point is, Sunrise Rigging (Wings) make the Wings for people like us who are big folks that jump smaller mains (for us) and want a decent sized reserve. There's no way I would want a reserve that would match my main...oh hell no!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[jeiber 0]

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Depends on what DZ conditions you limit yourself too (A 5000' field elevation on a hot summer day requires a canopy two sizes bigger to have the same speed and descent rate you have at standard sea level conditions) and how you define safe.

I'll primarily be jumping in the southeast and southwest. However, there's always a possibility I'll jump in Colorado.

Many won't agree with my definition of 'safe', but I consider 'reasonably safe' as a loading where I won't be breaking lines and blowing out cells. A safe reserve landing would be everything up to and including a broken ankle or arm as a worse likely scenario.

'Unsafe' would be a situation where a high speed mal would likely result in serious reserve damage, or a landing that would likely be fatal if I were unconscious (AAD fire). I would be willing to accept several broken bones in this scenario.

J

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[matthewcline 0]

Go with the Wings.

My set up;

215lbs out the door
181 Reserve
107 Cross Braced main

All in a custom built wings.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[apollard24 0]

My SO uses a Mirage M4 or 5. He has a Swift plus 200 for the reserve and a Vengeance 120 as the main. He's 6'2 and out the door around 198 lbs. I dont know that this is a correct container to use but just telling you what he jumps, I would ask the vendors. He has about 500 jumps on this particular setup with no problems.

Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

[jeiber 0]

Does the container look distorted or unbalanced with that big of a difference?

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[Derekbox 0]

Im in on this one... Im 5'10" 270lb out the door. Im on a 135 for now, itll be a 120 crossbraced here shortly. A 111 is not that far off in the horizon either.

Im looking at a V343 135m 143r or maybe a V310, 150m 143R. Ill probably go for a V343... I think Ill be buying it Feb 5th (ish).

;)

[apollard24 0]

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Does the container look distorted or unbalanced with that big of a difference?

No, funny thing is that is looks fine. I will pm you a pic if you would like. (when I get home from work)

Breathe out so I can breathe you in...

[councilman24 37]

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- how much smaller of a reserve can I safely jump? (physical limitations of reserve)


Jeff

You have already exceeded the certified loading of your reserve. If the 240lbs is you, your suspended weight will bust the TSO certification of 254lbs. Beyond that you're a test load for structural drop tests. If you look on PD's data table for reserves the Max is the certified limit.

Reserves are tested to higher loads than the limits produce. But that is designed to ensure the structual integrety of the reserve at maximum placarded loads.

BTW is only takes one broken bone to kill you.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jeiber 0]

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You have already exceeded the certified loading of your reserve.... you're a test load for structural drop tests. If you look on PD's data table for reserves the Max is the certified limit.

Yes, your facts are correct, but I think saying that anybody with an exit weight of over 254lbs is a 'structural test dummy' is a little dramatic. I'm currently exceeding the 'max weight' on my Vengeance 150 as well. Expert weight limit is 255, and Max is 270.

Canopy flies fine, and never had any structural damage, even though I'm exceeding all PD's specs.

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BTW is only takes one broken bone to kill you.

I tried to use the word 'reasonable' and 'typical' as much as possible to avoid this response. My point is that I'm willing to accept a certain level of injury.

For all the newbies who might be reading this, please don't read my post and think that this is always acceptable to do. It's not. I've talked to a manufacturer rep about my weight/loading prior to all my canopy purchases.

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[jeiber 0]

A Wings container it is! They seem to be very reasonably priced, as well. Ok, now to start working on colors... [sigh]

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[billvon 3,118]

>If the 240lbs is you, your suspended weight will bust the TSO
>certification of 254lbs.

True on the PD-176.

I'm sure you're aware of this, but side note for everyone else:

The 254 lb limit was only for TSO C23c cat B. C23d can be certified to any weight. The PD-281R, for example, is certified to 300 lbs.

[billvon 3,118]

>Looking for some thoughts and suggestions on container manufacturer and reserve sizing . . .

Another option may be to stick with a PD-176R size and wait for PD to introduce their low bulk reserves. A 176 sized reserve would then pack up more like a 143, and would likely fit in a container sized for 150/150 sq ft canopies.

[AggieDave 6]

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Another option may be to stick with a PD-176R size and wait for PD to introduce their low bulk reserves. A 176 sized reserve would them pack up more like a 143, and would likely fit in a container sized for 150/150 sq ft canopies.

In my case, after some thought about a recent fatality, I'm considering drastically upsizing my reserve with a low bulk PDr. Keeping my same container (which is plenty small enough and comfy) but getting a larger reserve.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[councilman24 37]

Your Vengence 150 isn't a reserve. And it isn't your last chance to live. It has no certification. The limits PD publishes are self determined and usually are conservative. But they also are based largely on performance. Mains like the Vengence don't have to open in a specified time (read quickly). So they don't routinely see the same opening force loads.

Many, many jumpers are loading their reserves beyond the certified (read legal) limit, even if you don't consider wearing them at speeds above the certification. Many more are loading them above the manufacturers published "expert" limit based on performance, including me on one of my rigs. But is it the best thing to do? No.

You asked how much smaller you could go based on structure. The answer is still that you've already passed it on PD reserves. As Bill pointed out TSO C23d allows higher any weight limit to be certified if the reserve can hold together.

Also, although I don't know of an instance of this being enforced, one could argue that by allowing you to jump with a reserve not certified to your weight a pilot is violating the FAR's, along with you. Again, AFAIK this has never been a matter of enforcement.

I also don't expect to change your mind about the reserve. But it's best to know what risks your taking.

BTW with the bottom of the container main loop you may very well be able to put a 135 in that J4. It would be different with a Vector III but you can shorten the Javelin loop and may be able to get the pin tight enough. The other issues is getting the bag locking stows to be tight enough not to line dump. On the other hand you may have reached the limit on smallness with the 150.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jurgencamps 0]

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Need a container to hold a Katana 135 or (possibly) 120, eventually will be moving to a Velo 120.

Now the tricky part - reserve size. Mirage will accept a reserve around 150sqft with my main combination, but that's over a 1.7 loading on a reserve.
Jeff

Ask mirage, they will build you a container for a big reserve and a small main. A friend ordered a mirage with a PD 143 and a katana 89.

BTW a velo 120 packs bigger than a katana 135. My velo 90 packs quite bigger than my katana 107.

Gr

Jurgen

[jeiber 0]

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I also don't expect to change your mind about the reserve. But it's best to know what risks your taking.

I acknowledge that it's not an ideal loading, and an unconscious landing will likely leave me pretty banged up. Also, my VN150 analogy wasn't a good one, but I was just trying to point out that straying from published numbers shouldn't always be looked at as taboo, especially when you're only looking at a couple pounds (literally).

I'm keeping my 176R instead of downsizing, so isn't that somewhat changing my mind?

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BTW with the bottom of the container main loop you may very well be able to put a 135 in that J4

Yes, I've been putting a few jumps on a KA135 in my J4, but they have all been hop n pops. For a fulltime rig, used for freeflying, I'm just not comfortable with the combination as a long term solution.

I do appreciate the comments!

Jeff

Shhh... you hear that sound? That's the sound of nobody caring!

[brabzzz 0]

I'm sure it's been discussed to the death, but when are these low bulk reserves gonna materialise? The PD press releases says there's a 143 and a 99 prototype on display, but nowt more?

---------------------------------------
Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club
www.skydivebristoluni.com

[PhreeZone 20]

The manufactor of the material went bankrupt, it needs to be produced by a new manufactor now.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

The manufactor of the material went bankrupt, it needs to be produced by a new manufactor now.

Wasn't Kolla or someone similar on here a while back stating that they had more then one supplier for that material and that it wasn't going to derail the program, just slow it down slightly?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."