skydiverek 63 #1 October 5, 2006 OK, so it is known and confirmed by Bill Booth that current reserve bridles will NOT extract a freebag in case of reserve horseshoe. Why not make them wider then? Like 10 inches wide? Would they be too heavy then? If not, why not? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #2 October 5, 2006 QuoteWhy not make them wider then? Like 10 inches wide? Would they be too heavy then? If not, why not? Can you say, "Pack Volume"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Calvin19 0 #3 October 5, 2006 hmm... how do you get a reserve horseshoe? maybe getting the pc stuck in your armpit? or in the legwing crotch inlet? -SPACE- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #4 October 5, 2006 there is speculation that a reserve hosreshoe caused a tandem fatality in new jersey recently. other than that, an unstable reserve deployment could launch the pilot chute in such a way that it could entangle with a jumper or his/her gear. just my 200 jump wonder opinion. ymmv."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #5 October 5, 2006 Quotehmm... how do you get a reserve horseshoe? The exact same way you get a main horseshoe... By having any part of the canopy or deployement system connected to the jumper during deployement: lines around flaps, PC around foot, etc....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #6 October 5, 2006 Quoteso it is known and confirmed by Bill Booth that current reserve bridles will NOT extract a freebag in case of reserve horseshoe Will not, or may not? Big difference.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #7 October 5, 2006 Reasons I can think of...... Pack Volume. Entanglement risk. The drag will cause major deployment reliability issues. No such material come to mind. It would have to be purpouse built. What we have is good enough. Re-TSO test costs.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #8 October 6, 2006 QuoteQuoteso it is known and confirmed by Bill Booth that current reserve bridles will NOT extract a freebag in case of reserve horseshoe Will not, or may not? Big difference. From Bill Booth: "Let me clear up one myth right now. The free bag system WILL NOT pull your reserve bag out of its container in the event of a horse shoe malfunction. A horse shoed 16 foot long, 2 inch wide, free bag bridle generates only about 2 pounds of force on the bag at terminal velocity. Most reserve canopies weigh over 5 pounds, not counting force required to extract them from the reserve container, especially if the main container is still closed. What the long wide bridle will do, however, is stabilize the bag, (if you reach back and throw it out of the container) so that it won't tumble through its own lines as it deploys. So, if you ever experience a horseshoe malfunction of your reserve, don't just lie there and wait to hit the ground, sit up until you feel the reserve bridle hit you in the back of the head, reach back and pull on it until the free bag is out of the container, and then let go. The drag of the bag itself, helped out by the bridle, will then carry it to line stretch. I put out a film about this about 15 years ago, but a lot of people seem to have forgotten.". ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In my tests, a horse shoed freebag bridle pulls only about one pound at the freebag end. Pockets on the bridle don't pull much more, and certainly not enough to pull a freebag out of a modern container. This is good, because the last thing you want during a pilot chute hesitation (common on internal spring-loaded pilot chute systems) is for your bridle to pull your bag out of the container and above the hesitating pilot chute. Reserve totals are rarely fun." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Question: So why do we have 2" bridles in the first place? Answer: Para-flite started it over 20 years ago. When they came out with the first square reserve, the Safety Flyer, they decided to "tinker" with a lot of other things too. The "free-bag" with its bungee "safety stows" and 2" wide "anti-horseshoe" bridle was the result. The Safety-Flyer was marketed with the Swift container system which had no pocketed corners. As a result, when you pulled the ripcord, the bag would simple fall out of the container. When they drop tested this combined system with a built-in "horseshoe" malfunction and a tumbling (unstable) dummy, the bag would simply be ejected from the container because of centifugal force (angular acceleration) and be pulled to line stretch by the force of the relative wind on the bag. The super long bridle allowed the lines to unstow, and the freebag allowed the canopy to open. The 2" width merely provided stabilization so that the bag did not tumble through the lines as they unstowed. The anti-horseshoe system worked in those test conditions. However, as stated earlier in this thread, it will not work with a stable jumper using a modern piggyback system. The long, wide bridle has persisted out of inertia. i.e. No one wanted to go against an existing, "proven" system. Even though, I suspect, the wide bridle helps create and lengthen pilot chute hesitations, because of the drag it creates in the burble right above a stable jumpers back on initial pilot chute launch. I have made one change recently, however. I had to shorted the bridle a bit to make the Skyhook work correctly. I kept the 2" width because of the stabilizing effect I noted above." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #9 October 6, 2006 Thanks Bill. ... We're not worthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 7 #10 October 6, 2006 QuoteOK, so it is known and confirmed by Bill Booth that current reserve bridles will NOT extract a freebag in case of reserve horseshoe. Why not make them wider then? Like 10 inches wide? Would they be too heavy then? If not, why not? Look up all the previous threads on the Catapult, it may answer some of your questions, too tired tonight to go into it. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avenfoto 0 #11 October 7, 2006 Quoteo, if you ever experience a horseshoe malfunction of your reserve, don't just lie there and wait to hit the ground, sit up until you feel the reserve bridle hit you in the back of the head, reach back and pull on it until the free bag is out of the container, and then let go. voice of experience? that is some hardcore oldschool shit. tons of respect. never give up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
