TrophyHusband 0 #1 May 9, 2007 part of my patio is like an alcove into the back of my house. there is a span of 20 feet with a 4x4 post a third of the way across it putting it in a shitty spot on my patio. i'm sure i could remove it with no problems, but in 5 years when we sell the house, a home inspector would likely notice. i've suggested to my wife that we could replace it with a brass stripper pole that would not only provide structural support but fine entertainment, but she said no. sorry i don't have pics to make it clearer, but does anyone know what could be done in this situation? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #2 May 9, 2007 It all depends on the total span, the load on the beam and the size of the beam. If the beam can't take the load, you can always sister another set of beams to the existing. Just need to secure them to the existing with proper fasteners and brackets. That is to say only if the 2 posts can handle the load new load. If it is that important, just get the permit so it is legal. Do some unpermitted work, sell the house without declaring it, have it fall and injure someone, then it will cost just a bit more. *ps, this is coming from an inspector.*50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #3 May 9, 2007 Is it physically attached to the house? If it's not, down in Twin Falls you don't need a permit to alter it. Not sure about up there, though. I've done a huge amount of renovation on our house, so I've pulled several permits, and I've asked the various inspectors about future plans (which include back yard alterations) as I went. Basically, the rule here is that if it's not attached to the house you can declare it "temporary" or something like that, and you don't need a permit. Structurally, the best way I've found to remove that kind of support pillar is to replace the beam it's supporting with something strong enough to span the distance. In a house, that means it has to support the roof, but I'm assuming with your patio that's not the case? If it is structural, then 20' is a pretty big span, and you're going to be into either a very large laminate beam (or more than one) or a steel I-beam. Either way, probably more trouble than it's worth.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #4 May 9, 2007 Possibly put in a new support somewhere else before taking out the old one? Get a new wife that supports (pun intended) the stripper pole idea? Plan B Specialists always recommend hiring a pro.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #5 May 9, 2007 Quote part of my patio is like an alcove into the back of my house. there is a span of 20 feet with a 4x4 post a third of the way across it putting it in a shitty spot on my patio. i'm sure i could remove it with no problems, but in 5 years when we sell the house, a home inspector would likely notice. i've suggested to my wife that we could replace it with a brass stripper pole that would not only provide structural support but fine entertainment, but she said no. sorry i don't have pics to make it clearer, but does anyone know what could be done in this situation? Send us some pics and we can probably help you a bit more. I am assuming that the load the column is carrying is part of the roof structure. If this is not the case then you can remove it safely. If the roof structure is bearing on the column, you can suppliment the existing column with a structural beam integrated into the structure and supported at either end or at locations that you find more asthetically pleasing. Personally - I like the stripper pole idea though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #6 May 9, 2007 There are tables telling you spans and limits on all steel beams and most all structural wooden beams. Consult the published data and or visit the particular manufacturer sites. Always remember that there are some circumstances that may change the load data. Snow Load, Wind, People Jumping. Look at live load capacity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #7 May 9, 2007 QuoteIs it physically attached to the house? If it's not, down in Twin Falls you don't need a permit to alter it. Not sure about up there, though. I've done a huge amount of renovation on our house, so I've pulled several permits, and I've asked the various inspectors about future plans (which include back yard alterations) as I went. Basically, the rule here is that if it's not attached to the house you can declare it "temporary" or something like that, and you don't need a permit. Structurally, the best way I've found to remove that kind of support pillar is to replace the beam it's supporting with something strong enough to span the distance. In a house, that means it has to support the roof, but I'm assuming with your patio that's not the case? If it is structural, then 20' is a pretty big span, and you're going to be into either a very large laminate beam (or more than one) or a steel I-beam. Either way, probably more trouble than it's worth. Not true in all cases...sometimes the post is a architectural fuckup in design. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #8 May 9, 2007 Quote Not true in all cases...sometimes the post is a architectural fuckup in design. or an engineering fix.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 May 9, 2007 true, there are those who cheated their way to a degree, I have met lots of them Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #10 May 9, 2007 go to your local lumber yard ask them to contact their beam manufacturer tell them the span and size of roof being supported(sq ft) and they will get you the right beam. build temp wall, take out existing beam , replace with new, its not a big deal i have replaced lots of beams in houses for the very reason you want to, wouldnt take but half a day start to finish.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #11 May 9, 2007 i took some pics, but then discovered that one of the small hairless monkeys that inhabit my house damaged the cumputer cable. i'll buy a new one this morning and post pics. there is another house in town with the same floor plan but built four years later, so i'll drive by it and see if it too has the post. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #12 May 9, 2007 here are some pics of the offending post. i'm thinking that there is a 4x6 beam spanning the distance, but what i can't tell without pulling things apart is if it is in one piece or two pieces that meet above the post. i also drove by my house's twin and there is no post. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #13 May 9, 2007 Quote If it is that important, just get the permit so it is legal. Do some unpermitted work, sell the house without declaring it, have it fall and injure someone, then it will cost just a bit more. *ps, this is coming from an inspector.* This quote is all that needs to be said about this. *coming from an engineer in the construction field."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #14 May 9, 2007 Doug, just trying to scare up work for you under utilized engineers. It will need to have calcs, drawings and a wet stamp from a PE. I've done lots of work that *should* have had a permit. Replacing a toilet/water heater/recepticle technically requires a permit. How often does it happen? But when it comes time to start ripping out supporting posts that might be load bearing, I like to make sure I'm not going to have the roof fall in. The fact that the suspect post is not centered makes me nervous. The beam may have had a defect and a quick fix was to stick a post underneath it. I'd at least do a little exploratory deconstruction of the soffit to see what is actually up there. 50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #15 May 9, 2007 a steel beam would be the best thing for you to put there if you are wanting to keep everything looking the same other wise you could just remove the soffit were a beam could be placed under and post put at each end an lvl beam for that span will probably be around 5in thick and 16in tall, but painted wouldn't look bad. just a contractors point of view.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #16 May 9, 2007 if i do anything it would be with the proper permits and inspections. i'm just trying to figure out if its worth it. a few hundred dollars, yes. a few thousand dollars, no. if it is done, it will be done right, otherwise me and a sawzall would have already taken care of it. i think the best i can hope for is that the beam that is in there is in two peices and can just be replaced with a one piece beam. things are never that easy though. "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 May 9, 2007 Use a steel beam with supports at both ends, make sure it lands squarely on the bearing plates. Steel beam for that would be in the 17lb per foot range I think, not very large but the flats of the "I" would need to be in the 4.5" to 6" area You can land the beam on the walls but they need to be reinforced to carry the extra load. 4 2"x6" at each bearing point installed as cripples will do, make sure they are fastened together well. and make sure you strap the I beam to the top wall plates for storm proofing etc. that small area under your roof in a storm would generate some lift. I don't have all the tables in front of me at the moment. That post is carrying no more than a 500lb static load. gives you a nice place to hang a porch swing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #18 May 9, 2007 i managed to track down the home builder and talk to him. he said that sometimes he gets a 20 foot beam and sometimes he get 2 ten foot beams and has to use a post. i could remove the existing two beams and replace it with one 20 footer, but the beam alone would cost about $600. is there another fix such as sandwiching the two ends between two pieces of steel and bolting them together? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #19 May 10, 2007 steel is alot stronger and cheaper, find a local steel building supplier i have installed steel beams in alot of houses and a 20 footer would be around 100 to 250 depending on the gauge and nominal size usedlight travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
