Changing jobs - Would I be stupid?

[RandomLemming 0]

Well, everyone I've tried to speak to about this so far just says I'm crazy, so I thought I'd throw myself upon the tender mercies of the DZ commers :)

I have a pretty good life in the UK. I currently contract for a large investment bank, although they're trying to convince me to go perm. I have an OK house, a wife who tolerates me and overall a pretty easy life. I even get two weekends off a month to jump or do other stuff around the house.

But I'm bored. Work's just a routine... It's something I get up every day and go and do because I have bills to pay.

Yesterday an old boss called me. I left the company on amicable terms 8 years ago to move to the UK. He's looking for someone to run around Africa like a blue arsed fly rolling out some technology stuff into various cellular (mobile for my current hosts) operator's systems.

I'd be on the road 3 weeks out of 4 for the first 6 months, and the money he's offering would put me half way between my current monthly outgoings and my current monthly earnings.

I'd be staying in OK hotels, and I'd have the time to learn Spanish in the evenings and finish off the studying for the certifications I'm currently trying to achieve. But I'd still be in deep dark Africa... Kenya, Burkina Faso, Niger, etc. Most of these places have had coups and other military activity in recent years, and they're not exactly peace and stability models.

But I'd be doing something interesting. I have NO idea about half of the tech involved, I don't know the systems and I don't know half of what I need to to get the job done. I'd be challeged daily, I'd be working my ass off from early to late to get the work done.

On the weekends that I don't get to fly back to London, I'd be thousands of miles away from my wife, my dog and my cat. I'd be alone, something I'm traditionally not good at, and I'd be a long way from anything that currently makes me happy or comfortable.

I'd be walking away from an easy life and the possibility of a career with one of the most successful investment banks on the scene at the moment. I'd be REALLY pissing my boss off seeing as he talked me into staying when I wanted to resign two weeks ago.

On the plus sides, I'd get to jump at JSC on the occasional weekend that I'm in jo'burg which is always a plus. I'd be challenged and I'd be doing something more valuable to the world than making another bank even richer. I'd be helping people in some of the most remote parts of the world communicate with people outside of their immediate communities. From a selfish perspective, I'd almost be picking up an entire new career and I'd learn GSM systems inside out. I'd be experiencing parts of the world that many people never see. And I'd have the opportunity to carve a chunk of a startup company for myself.

The initial contract would be for 6 months after which I can walk away, but what would I be walking back to ? Would I still have a family to come home to? Can I really ask that much of a person, to wait for me for so long ?

This all looked a lot clearer and easier in the cold light of day, but as the day draws on, I get more and more confused and concerned.

So what would you do?

[Gawain 0]

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Well, everyone I've tried to speak to about this so far just says I'm crazy, so I thought I'd throw myself upon the tender mercies of the DZ commers

Taking that line of thinking means you should stay...

The new job opportunity sounds very, very interesting. I'm not sure how to read your remarks about the money, it sounds like it would be a pay cut, but you'd still be in a positive cashflow?

Meanwhile, don't snowball yourself either, companies don't build out wireless networks without it meaning there's a mean amount of money in it for them. Don't for one second think that money isn't the primary factor behind this.

Having said that, what does your wife say? Does she suffer from your "routine-misery", etc? Would your marriage survive that much time on the road?

Either way, you've got one hell of a high-class problem here (I mean that in a good way). What kind of plan lies behind the initial 6 month contract? That would be the crux for me right there.

edit to add: You should also secure what kind of provisions are in place if you get stuck in an area of strife (hostage insurance, etc). The political climate there changes like New England weather.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[RandomLemming 0]

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The new job opportunity sounds very, very interesting. I'm not sure how to read your remarks about the money, it sounds like it would be a pay cut, but you'd still be in a positive cashflow?

I'm still not sure how to read that myself :D

I'd be taking a pay cut, yes, but the take-home amount would still cover all of my outgoings including life insurance, medical, etc.

On the flip side, I'd be spending less and pocketing some of my allowance because I don't really live an extravagant lifestyle outside of geek toys and skydiving.

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Meanwhile, don't snowball yourself either, companies don't build out wireless networks without it meaning there's a mean amount of money in it for them. Don't for one second think that money isn't the primary factor behind this.

Not arguing that for a microsecond - for the companies involved, there is BIG money at stake here. We're talking comms into areas that were previously deemed too unprofitable to serve back in the days when you had to run copper. We're talking about offering phones to people who used to send the village elect 20kms to the nearest pay-phone bank to make all of the required calls and get all the news. And we're talking about doing it at a price point that everyone will want a piece of this. So yeah, there's big money.

There might even be some money in it for me in the long term, but I've always struggled to focus on money. I figure I find some when I need it. You'll also note the point about the discrepancy between my outgoings and my take-home at the moment - that gets piled into various savings accounts and bled for vacations and home improvements :D

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Having said that, what does your wife say? Does she suffer from your "routine-misery", etc? Would your marriage survive that much time on the road?

My wife says that if this is something I want to do, I should go for it. And she probably means it too - I've never met anyone like her when it comes to supporting me.

I'm just not sure the marriage will survive though. We've never spent more than the odd week here or there for business apart and even then she's sometimes come with me.

Will she meet someone normal while I'm on the road and realise that life doesn't have to be as weird as it is with me? Will she find someone that is more focussed on seeing museums and having a nice tidy home and garden? Will she just realise that she doesn't really need me or that the place is tidier and quieter without me?

Yeah, I jump out of planes. That doesn't mean I have any self esteem or confidence, alright ?

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Either way, you've got one hell of a high-class problem here (I mean that in a good way). What kind of plan lies behind the initial 6 month contract? That would be the crux for me right there.

How do you mean the plan? With regards to why 6 months, that's what they can guarantee to pay me and fund my flights for right now. I've worked with this guy before, and he's really good that way - he won't make an offer unless he knows he can fund the whole thing, end to end.

Initially, it would be fly back to SA for training and introduction to the product. Then I'd fly out to the first site and start the install.

2 weeks after leaving, I'd fly back to London for 4 days because I've promised my wife and her parents to take them to Fairford. I'd then fly back to site, finish the first install, then back to London for a week and off from there. From then on it would be 2 weeks on a site, then 1 week back in London for 4 - 6 months, except for August. In August I'm taking my wife to NY for her 0x21 (33rd) birthday.

They're being pretty cool with the dates that I already have commitments for and they're re-structuring the roll-out schedule around that.

[Gawain 0]

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Either way, you've got one hell of a high-class problem here (I mean that in a good way). What kind of plan lies behind the initial 6 month contract? That would be the crux for me right there.

How do you mean the plan? With regards to why 6 months, that's what they can guarantee to pay me and fund my flights for right now. I've worked with this guy before, and he's really good that way - he won't make an offer unless he knows he can fund the whole thing, end to end.

That's part of the problem. If he can only guarantee you six months work, what's the plan beyond that for you? You won't be able to waltz back to the bank and say, "Hey, I'm back, bridge my service and retirement, etc."

I fully understand that there are no guarantees in life, but a six month business plan, isn't a plan, it's a reaction. I'm not doubting your former-boss' intentions, but if he's not showing you any light at the end of the tunnel, then there's an underlying problem there. Even if the light at the end of the tunnel were a train, that's more information than what you have to work with right now.

Your personal plans be damned (from a business perspective), your former-boss' customers will tighten the strings as things get going, or they'll cut loose. Telecom isn't sexy anymore, if they can find a way to expand the margin, they'll take it. The installation schedule will change.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[RandomLemming 0]

Well, the 6 month thing actually doesn't worry me that much... I've been contracting for 4 years now on a 3 month contract. Every 9 - 12 months I end up moving somewhere else, and I can't stay anywhere for more than 2 years anyway with the IR35 law in the UK. But my commitment from the employer of the moment has only been for the next 3 months.

Because my pension plan is self funded, and I have no benefits accrued from service, this is really just more of the same. 6 months is actually double my current commitment that I go in on, so I have _more_ security than I do now :D

At the bank at the moment, I'd rather remain a contractor, but they're trying to move to permanent staff, hence their offer. They're looking for more continuity and knowledge retention than they get with contractors, but the contracting market here is pretty strong still and I've not completely decided to become a wage slave again. For one thing, you don't get paid overtime. So whereas now, the weekends that I'm currently not able to skydiving because of work make me money, if I go perm, those weekends are just lost time with nothing extra to show for them.

[NWFlyer 2]

What about something other than "either/or"?

This job has opened up your eyes to the idea of doing "something" different. You are fascinated with it at the moment, perhaps solely because it is so very different. It really does sound interesting and challenging.

But is it the right thing to move to? Or is this just the catalyst to get you off your ass and looking for something else that fascinates you and yet allows you to maintain a little more of your personal life?

Or is it exactly what you need to get you out of your rut and shake your life up?

Only you can answer that.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Muenkel 0]

Hi Wayne,

First, welcome to DZ.com!
I don't know you or your work circumstances. You did give a fairly good description of what your dilemma is. I am going to go on a hunch I felt while reading your posts. So here are my 2 cents (or 2p):

IMO, my first priority would always be my wife and family life. Yes, career is very important and necessary. I don't know how solid your marriage is, but the fact that you even mentioned that you wonder if your wife would find someone better during this time sends up a red flag for me; although I do not know if you were being completely serious with that statement.

Most people experience the rut of their day to day job. That is the time to explore your options. Yes, you do have one option on the table right now. What other options are there? Is this rut you're in temporary? Any possibility for a promotion in the not too distant future? What other options are there in London? Are you considering this 6 month option just because you're bored with your current situation and you're looking for a quick fix? These are questions I would recommend you ask yourself.

Personally, I wouldn't make any decision unless I knew I was putting my wife first.

Just some things to think about. I wish you the best of luck.
Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[iamsam 0]

sounds like you're fishing for someone to tell u not too

fuk dat

go for it u pussy

but what do I know

[skydiver30960 0]

I dunno, man. It sounds like you're going to be selling stuff you don't know to people you don't know in a place you don't know. Oh, and you also don't know if it'll last or dry up after six months.

I'm with someone earlier in the thread; find something new, but not THIS something new. In the meantime, snuggle with the wifey and watch the bank account grow. Money you save now will help you chase those dreams later on.

Elvisio "discretion is the better part of valor" Rodriguez

[Krip 2]

HI RL

Africa: Niger etc. Isn't that a rough part of the world especially since your going to be "outstanding" in a crowd of locals.

You've got life insurance and your wife says go for it, wonder what she would say if you didn't have the insurance Will your pay continue if you get kidnapped and weren't released past your contract

I can understand being bored with your old job and getting paid the big $$$ isn't to exciteing since your not into collecting things you don't need.

If your looking for a change, have you looked at other jobs that would also interest you in a area thats a little less volatile than the area you described.

A shoe salesmen in a high end womens store might be fun

[Squeak 17]

i pick and chose my jobs on a very simple idea money barely factors into it.
Do I wake up everyday looking forward to going to work, or on a bad day do i at least feel good about going to work.


I have left jobs that paid over $1000.00 per week in hand, because i woke up too many times thinking, "Fuck I HAVE to go to work today", I refuse to live my life with that attitude about my work.
The job I do today pays me shit by comparission, but till enoug to live reasonably. and in 8 years i have not once thought "Fuck I HAVE to go to work today"

That's why I have the sigline I do

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[RandomLemming 0]

Heh - On a serious note, I would have kidnap insurance as well :)

[RandomLemming 0]

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I dunno, man. It sounds like you're going to be selling stuff you don't know to people you don't know in a place you don't know. Oh, and you also don't know if it'll last or dry up after six months.

I'd actually be doing the tech work - someone else has already done the selling bit. But yeah, I'd be doing stuff I have no idea about - that's one of the plusses though :)

[RandomLemming 0]

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IMO, my first priority would always be my wife and family life. Yes, career is very important and necessary. I don't know how solid your marriage is, but the fact that you even mentioned that you wonder if your wife would find someone better during this time sends up a red flag for me; although I do not know if you were being completely serious with that statement.

To be honest, even I'm not sure how serious I am. Our marriage is pretty solid, but I just can't help but feel that she could do better. Hell, I was surprised as all get out that she agreed to marry me, for just that reason.

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Most people experience the rut of their day to day job. That is the time to explore your options. Yes, you do have one option on the table right now. What other options are there? Is this rut you're in temporary? Any possibility for a promotion in the not too distant future? What other options are there in London? Are you considering this 6 month option just because you're bored with your current situation and you're looking for a quick fix? These are questions I would recommend you ask yourself.

The rut is pretty permanent. Because I'm a contractor, there are no chances for promotion or advancement within a company. With regards to the industry, it's just weird...

There's also the issue of the UK work ethic, which makes the African run appealing. I HATE the slopey shoulders, 'more than my jobs worth guv' attitude that pervades most companies I've worked for. I HATE (to the point of real boiling anger) the HSE (Health and safety executive) and the 'pussification' of the country that I see every day. And I hate the fact that 90% of people I come into contact with on a daily basis would probably fail a turing test. We're talking real zombies here.

Africa has an energy and spirit to it that I miss almost every day. The downside is that some of that energy is borne from desperation and that can make the continent an interesting place in the context of the ancient chinese curse. But at least you feel truly alive right up until the moment you're dead :)

[Krip 2]

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Heh - On a serious note, I would have kidnap insurance as well :)

Might just be me, but I don't think thats a good sign

No wonder the wife wants you to go for it
Kidnap insurance until they find your body, then life insurance kicks in. If anything happens to you, the wife won't be able to forget you. until the money runs out

OTOH the ladies shoesales job, also has benifits for her, is she's into shoes.

BTW the attitude of working folks in britian isn't restricted to that country. It's world wide just varies by how far down the food chain it extends.

One Jump Wonder

[popsjumper 2]

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...
On the weekends that I don't get to fly back to London, I'd be thousands of miles away from my wife, my dog and my cat.

If it had been me...that would have been the clincher. I'd be packing tomorrow.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239