warpedskydiver 0 #1 June 22, 2007 so what is your opinion and why? Prius? Camry? Lexus? VW diesel? LNG Conversion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #2 June 22, 2007 IBBV Seriously, I know nothing about this stuff.. Sorry for the hijack "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 June 22, 2007 Go listen to rap music will ya?J/K Billy you fellow smartass! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #4 June 22, 2007 Funny thing... I meant In Before Bill Von... only later did I realize it could be me too... Rap??? What the heck is that? "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #5 June 22, 2007 It's that crap that causes Tinnitus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #6 June 22, 2007 why did you leave off the civic, or civic hybrid? prius, blahhhhhh camry, ummm it's a camry, lexus, ummmm they make efficient cars???vw diesel, diesel smells, but this is a good one, better than the others. I have no idea what lng conversion is. Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #7 June 22, 2007 Quoteso what is your opinion and why? Prius? Camry? Lexus? VW diesel? LNG Conversion? I have a VW diesel - Golf TDI. On a recent trip to Boston from NC - I averaged 48.5 mpg over the entire trip with 53 mpg on one leg. And since diesel was cheaper (I filled up for $2.42 in at a truck stop) I've been making out like a bandit. The VW diesels are supposed to be good for 500k miles plus. Mine is at 60K miles and no problems thus far. The only thing that really sucks is that if you do have a problem, VW is not cheap with their repairs. I'm hoping we get biodiesel online here soon. I'm not sure how that will affect the mileage but the on the environmental end I think it will be much cleaner.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 June 22, 2007 Thanks, I am suprised Bill Von did not opine. As for the civic, I just did not know about that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 June 22, 2007 Quote why did you leave off the civic, or civic hybrid? prius, blahhhhhh camry, ummm it's a camry, lexus, ummmm they make efficient cars???vw diesel, diesel smells, but this is a good one, better than the others. I have no idea what lng conversion is. Liquid Natural Gas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 June 22, 2007 Quoteso what is your opinion and why? Prius? Camry? Lexus? VW diesel? LNG Conversion? Difficult to say without stating the purpose of the fleet of vehicles. Will these vehicles be used short or long distances? Will these vehicles be for a single occupant or multi-occupants? Will the vehicles need to carry cargo? Too many factors to consider for any one single blanket statement that would cover all situations.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #11 June 22, 2007 single and multiple occupants, mostly highway driving and personal use. Cargo limited to suitcases. Executive staff Company trying to set an example of responsible fuel comsumption/ reduction etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 June 22, 2007 Executive staff?!? You're going to have to go Lexus just because executives have a tendancy to be a little picky about their image as well.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #13 June 23, 2007 Nope don't really want to create that image. Causes dissent among the troops Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #14 June 23, 2007 QuoteQuoteI have a VW diesel - Golf TDI. On a recent trip to Boston from NC - I averaged 48.5 mpg over the entire trip with 53 mpg on one leg. With the added bonus that you're in a safer vehicle because everyone can hear you coming from miles away! tick-tick-tick-tick-tick-(hits the gas)-TICK-TICK-TICK-TICK-TICk-(idles downhill)-tick-tick-tick-tick... When I was a littleun' my family had one of the original Rabbit diesels. Bright yellow, tan vinyl interior, GOD I hated that car because my friends would always give me shit about it. You could literally hear it from around the block. Elvisio "scarred for life" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #15 June 25, 2007 The new Volkswagen TDI engines are pretty good. Prius if you want to be 'seen' to be being responsible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #16 June 25, 2007 Diesels will give you better longevity, they run cooler, get great mileage, and don't have a dual-power-train maintenance checklist that hybrids do. For a fleet purposes, I would look at that, or Civics or Corollas (assuming something smallish is okay).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #17 June 25, 2007 Diesels run cooler? I think diesels should be required to have the exhaust pipe exit on top of the hood. People claim that the newer VWs don't blow soot, but I've seen new TDIs that certainly do. You can still get Honda Civics powered by compressed natural gas (standard from the factory). That would be a good choice, I think.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #18 June 25, 2007 > Diesels will give you better longevity, they run cooler, get great mileage, > and don't have a dual-power-train maintenance checklist that hybrids do. Diesels run hotter than either Otto or Atkinson cycle engines; lean burn engines usually do. This is one reason they are more efficient, and also one reason that their NOx emissions are higher than other engines. Also, hybrids typically require the same or less maintenance than non-hybrids; their IC engines and brake pads are used less, and thus wear more slowly. Many do not have transmissions, and thus have no transmission fluid changes/band adjustments to make. Their additional components (batteries/BLDC motors/inverters) have no inherent wearout mechanisms, unlike most mechanical components. However, diesels last longer than Otto or Atkinson cycle engines due to their greater simplicity (no ignition) and smoother power profile (less stress on engine parts.) In addition, diesel fuel, unlike gasoline, is a good lubricant, thus wear is greatly reduced in the top cylinder. On the minus side, they're harder to start in cold weather, they are dirtier than gasoline engines, and some of the cleaner ones (still dirtier than the cleanest gas cars) require additional fluids (like urea) to help the catalyst keep the exhaust relatively clean. They gain some complexity back because they require much more complex emissions controls and engine controls (like RPM governors.) If your goal is fuel economy and ease of operation, I'd go with one of the better hybrids, like the Civic or the Prius. (Or consider cars like the Yaris; you don't need a hybrid to get good fuel economy if a smaller/slower car is OK.) If it's longevity and cost, I'd go with one of the newer diesels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #19 June 25, 2007 QuoteDiesels run hotter than either Otto or Atkinson cycle engines; lean burn engines usually do. This is one reason they are more efficient, and also one reason that their NOx emissions are higher than other engines. My memory is that diesels run hotter because they have such a higher compression ratio, and the higher temps and pressure associated with the combustion at a higher compression ratio inherently produces more NOx. The efficiency of an internal combustion engine increases as the temperature of the combustion increases, so diesels (compression ignition engines) will always be able to be more efficient than what a spark ignition engine with an inherently limited compression ratio can deliver. QuoteMany (hybrids) do not have transmissions What hybrids do not have transmissions? QuoteTheir additional components (batteries/BLDC motors/inverters) have no inherent wearout mechanisms, unlike most mechanical components. I didn't realize the eternal battery had been developed. Come on now, not even the manufacturers of brushless motors imply they will last forever. It doesn't matter if what fails can be called an "inherent wearout mechanism" or whatever. Batteries, brushless dc motors and their associated controls do fail.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,118 #20 June 25, 2007 >The efficiency of an internal combustion engine increases as the >temperature of the combustion increases, so diesels (compression ignition >engines) will always be able to be more efficient than what a spark ignition >engine with an inherently limited compression ratio can deliver. That is true of Otto-cycle engines (fixed compression/expansion ratio) but not of Atkinson-cycle engines (variable compression/expansion ratio.) I would also add that at wide-open throttle gas and diesel engines are almost the same efficiency, but diesels are MUCH more efficient at partial power settings (where most cars cruise.) >What hybrids do not have transmissions? The THS hybrids (Prius, Highlander, Escape) do not have a transmission; they have two motors and a single planetary gear that functions as an infinitely variable transmission. Toyota calls it the PSD (power split device) since it uses electrical power to replace the mechanical ratio elements of a traditional mechanical transmission. >I didn't realize the eternal battery had been developed. It hasn't, but no THS battery has ever needed replacing because it wore out. Some early Prius battery packs have seen over 300,000 miles on them. >Come on now, not even the manufacturers of brushless motors imply they >will last forever. Agreed. But if they will last far longer than any other part of the car, then replacement cost effectively does not factor into the purchase decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #21 June 25, 2007 QuoteVW is not cheap with their repairs. That actually needs to be in bolds. And just for you I present: Grease Car."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #22 June 25, 2007 Fleet Use? Nuclear Aircraft Carrier duh ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bob.dino 1 #15 June 25, 2007 The new Volkswagen TDI engines are pretty good. Prius if you want to be 'seen' to be being responsible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #16 June 25, 2007 Diesels will give you better longevity, they run cooler, get great mileage, and don't have a dual-power-train maintenance checklist that hybrids do. For a fleet purposes, I would look at that, or Civics or Corollas (assuming something smallish is okay).So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #17 June 25, 2007 Diesels run cooler? I think diesels should be required to have the exhaust pipe exit on top of the hood. People claim that the newer VWs don't blow soot, but I've seen new TDIs that certainly do. You can still get Honda Civics powered by compressed natural gas (standard from the factory). That would be a good choice, I think.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #18 June 25, 2007 > Diesels will give you better longevity, they run cooler, get great mileage, > and don't have a dual-power-train maintenance checklist that hybrids do. Diesels run hotter than either Otto or Atkinson cycle engines; lean burn engines usually do. This is one reason they are more efficient, and also one reason that their NOx emissions are higher than other engines. Also, hybrids typically require the same or less maintenance than non-hybrids; their IC engines and brake pads are used less, and thus wear more slowly. Many do not have transmissions, and thus have no transmission fluid changes/band adjustments to make. Their additional components (batteries/BLDC motors/inverters) have no inherent wearout mechanisms, unlike most mechanical components. However, diesels last longer than Otto or Atkinson cycle engines due to their greater simplicity (no ignition) and smoother power profile (less stress on engine parts.) In addition, diesel fuel, unlike gasoline, is a good lubricant, thus wear is greatly reduced in the top cylinder. On the minus side, they're harder to start in cold weather, they are dirtier than gasoline engines, and some of the cleaner ones (still dirtier than the cleanest gas cars) require additional fluids (like urea) to help the catalyst keep the exhaust relatively clean. They gain some complexity back because they require much more complex emissions controls and engine controls (like RPM governors.) If your goal is fuel economy and ease of operation, I'd go with one of the better hybrids, like the Civic or the Prius. (Or consider cars like the Yaris; you don't need a hybrid to get good fuel economy if a smaller/slower car is OK.) If it's longevity and cost, I'd go with one of the newer diesels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #19 June 25, 2007 QuoteDiesels run hotter than either Otto or Atkinson cycle engines; lean burn engines usually do. This is one reason they are more efficient, and also one reason that their NOx emissions are higher than other engines. My memory is that diesels run hotter because they have such a higher compression ratio, and the higher temps and pressure associated with the combustion at a higher compression ratio inherently produces more NOx. The efficiency of an internal combustion engine increases as the temperature of the combustion increases, so diesels (compression ignition engines) will always be able to be more efficient than what a spark ignition engine with an inherently limited compression ratio can deliver. QuoteMany (hybrids) do not have transmissions What hybrids do not have transmissions? QuoteTheir additional components (batteries/BLDC motors/inverters) have no inherent wearout mechanisms, unlike most mechanical components. I didn't realize the eternal battery had been developed. Come on now, not even the manufacturers of brushless motors imply they will last forever. It doesn't matter if what fails can be called an "inherent wearout mechanism" or whatever. Batteries, brushless dc motors and their associated controls do fail.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #20 June 25, 2007 >The efficiency of an internal combustion engine increases as the >temperature of the combustion increases, so diesels (compression ignition >engines) will always be able to be more efficient than what a spark ignition >engine with an inherently limited compression ratio can deliver. That is true of Otto-cycle engines (fixed compression/expansion ratio) but not of Atkinson-cycle engines (variable compression/expansion ratio.) I would also add that at wide-open throttle gas and diesel engines are almost the same efficiency, but diesels are MUCH more efficient at partial power settings (where most cars cruise.) >What hybrids do not have transmissions? The THS hybrids (Prius, Highlander, Escape) do not have a transmission; they have two motors and a single planetary gear that functions as an infinitely variable transmission. Toyota calls it the PSD (power split device) since it uses electrical power to replace the mechanical ratio elements of a traditional mechanical transmission. >I didn't realize the eternal battery had been developed. It hasn't, but no THS battery has ever needed replacing because it wore out. Some early Prius battery packs have seen over 300,000 miles on them. >Come on now, not even the manufacturers of brushless motors imply they >will last forever. Agreed. But if they will last far longer than any other part of the car, then replacement cost effectively does not factor into the purchase decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #21 June 25, 2007 QuoteVW is not cheap with their repairs. That actually needs to be in bolds. And just for you I present: Grease Car."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #22 June 25, 2007 Fleet Use? Nuclear Aircraft Carrier duh ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
