Was I wrong, an asshole or just misunderstood?

[hobie331 0]

Opinions please.
Today at our little 182 dz I jumped back to back loads. I got on manifest when I came in as I had one rig packed. I proceeded to pack my other rig and when done noticed that there was an open slot on a tandem with video load. I asked the manifestor(also the DZO's wife) if I could have it and she said yes since no one else was packed or had signed up. The video guy and tandem master were already gearing up. I went out first to work on a sitfly and when I got down ran to the hangar and changed into my RW suit. As we were heading for the plane,which didn't have to wait, one of the other jumpers asked me if I hadn't just been on the previous load. I said yes and when he asked why I was on this one I told him because I had two rigs. He said that didn't matter that I should wait to be on the ground, then manifest(keep in mind, no one was ready for the previous load). He seemed a little pissed so I just said sorry, it won't happen again(OK, I didn't just say it, there was a little heat behind it). For those of you who jump 182's, you'll realize I now had about 25 minutes to work up a good steam. Once on the ground I talked with manifest and she didn't have a problem, nor did the DZO. When the DZO came over to explain the problem the guy acted like there wasn't one and said all I had to say was, there was a slot open and no one wanted it, not that "I have two rigs." It turned into somewhat of a pissing contest and my wife(bless her heart) got a little vocal. At this point the whole argument of what I said about having two rigs opposed to no one wanting or being ready for the slot seems like semantics to me. Later. the guy somewhat tried to apologize and I told him I was pissed. He then started to drag my wife into it at which point I just said, "we need to just drop this now," and he said OK. The funny thing about it all, this guy approached me when another jumper, who loves to chase tandems but wasn't packed, mentioned it to the guy who came to me. However, when the argument started, guy one quietly sat in the corner and kept quiet.
OK, I realize none of you know me and I have dragged this out, blah, blah, blah. Was I wrong, an asshole or is this just a ration of S**T?

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[airtwardo 7]

Was I wrong, an asshole or is this just a ration of S**T?

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Yes







Edited to add:
Buy ANOTHER rig...that'll really piss him off!

You're a cooler head than me...someone goes off on MY wife, I just refuse to hold her back!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Squeak 17]

Fuck em, you asked maifest, so you are either Fast or you're last. I would not have wasted my breath on the guy. Maybe yup i was on the last load, and is you're not ready when i get down I'll try to be on the next load too

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[hobie331 0]

Thanks Squeak. Just wondering though. Since you're downunder, should I change the text too read, "tomorrow at our little 182 dz?"

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[sundevil777 102]

Some places and people can have a problem with it because you might keep the plane waiting if you land far away or get delayed for some other reason. I realize that you didn't keep them waiting that time, but if a lot of people do it often enough, then a delay will likely happen often enough to cause a DZO to consider a policy against it. All that doesn't apply, of course, if you are a staff member in high demand for your services.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[TrophyHusband 0]

its the dzo's decisioon to let you manifest. if someone has a problem with it, they can take it up with him. after all, it's his business and he can run it the way he wants.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Later. the guy somewhat tried to apologize and I told him I was pissed.

I think his attitude was wrong in the first place...but why were you still pissed if the guy was trying to apologize? It sounds like you were dragging this on.

It's kind of low class not to accept an apology in general, especially over something so trivial, don't you think? You each apologized to each other and it doesn't sound like either of you accepted it.

You seem like a decent guy, but not having been there and heard or seen the whole exchange, who knows...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[Squeak 17]

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It's kind of low class not to accept an apology in general, ...

Yeah I might like to argue that little bit right there one day with you Jaye

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[waltappel 1]

This is a beautiful example of skydivers acting like selfish, bratty little kids. The guy who got upset with you was acting like a little crybaby and you were not a whole lot better than him because you stewed over it and did everything you could to "settle" the matter. Then, you didn't accept his apology and it took you a while to get over it.

By getting involved in it you were tacitly saying that his argument had some sort of validity to it.

The correct response would have been to ask him whether his diapers needed changing or he was being cranky because he hasn't had his nap.

Walt

[hobie331 0]

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Later. the guy somewhat tried to apologize and I told him I was pissed.

I think his attitude was wrong in the first place...but why were you still pissed if the guy was trying to apologize? It sounds like you were dragging this on.

It's kind of low class not to accept an apology in general, especially over something so trivial, don't you think? You each apologized to each other and it doesn't sound like either of you accepted it.

You seem like a decent guy, but not having been there and heard or seen the whole exchange, who knows...

Interesting that you brought this up. Notice I said "somewhat tried to apologize." This was when he dragged my wife into it and when I asked him if that was an apology his response was, "I don't think I should have too." He then walked away and sat on the sofa behind me. I then went to him, said, "I can man-up," and offered my hand. He shook it and that was pretty much the end of conversation.
There is plenty more involved in this, but other than the basics that I intially provided it all seems like a smear. I'm pretty sure that those involved don't post here but it doesn't seem worth it to provide more info. Naturally, being an asshole, I'm going to defend myself. I was just curious if the back to back loads was out of line considering the circumstances?

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[hobie331 0]

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This is a beautiful example of skydivers acting like selfish, bratty little kids. The guy who got upset with you was acting like a little crybaby and you were not a whole lot better than him because you stewed over it and did everything you could to "settle" the matter. Then, you didn't accept his apology and it took you a while to get over it.

By getting involved in it you were tacitly saying that his argument had some sort of validity to it.



Walt

True, true.
I guess that's why I posted in the first place. I have learned from reading posts, if nothing else, dz.commers are very honest. At least if they know you can't find them and kick their asses.

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.

[JohnRich 4]

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I was just curious if the back to back loads was out of line considering the circumstances?

Generally speaking, that's called "double manifesting", and is akin to butting in front of the line. The idea is that you shouldn't manifest for another jump, until after landing from the previous one. That way, others have a fair chance to get manifested too, in proper order, without anyone getting special favor.

However, in the specific circumstances you describe, that doesn't seem to be the case, since it was going to be an empty slot that no one wanted. So all you should of had to do was to explain those circumstances to the guy so that he would understand.

There are exceptions to the general disfavor of double-mainfesting, for example, with teams doing training jumps. They may have negotiated a special jump price and number of jumps per day, in exchange for promising to make a minimum number of jumps each weekend to help keep the plane full and moving. But this can breed discontent amongst other jumpers who have to wait longer for another load, while the teams get more jumps than anyone else. It's up to the DZ manager to handle all this.

[HeadCone 0]

Ultimately, it's up to the DZO to set the policy and it looks like they have in your favor. Personally, I think if you've got 10 rigs packed and ready to go you should be able sign up for the next 10 loads. At a little 182 dz, signing-up early can help make more loads fly: "Hmm, Hobie wants to jump again, ok, i'll sign-up too."

--Head

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Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety!

http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/

[HardCorr 0]

If he comes up to you again, just remember what the old and wise Ricky Bobby once said! "If you're not first, you're LAST!"

The key to being a good teacher, is to be a good listener...

[popsjumper 2]

Troll? Or another "entitlement generation" post?

Taking it to an extreme for demonstration purposes:

So Rich Dickie gets to the DZ before you and buys every slot on every load for himself...you don't get to jump that day while Dickie does 25 solos.

4-way group shows up but 1 slot is already booked on every load...you don't get to play together.

4 fun jumpers wanting to play together in the sky..can't do it together because of the double-manifesting bitch


Still stand by what you said?


On the other hand, if an unclaimed slot is available on the next load, by all means take it and jump your ass off!

There's lots of ways to get on successive loads without being an asshole about it. How about taking a youngster on a free coach jump?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[waltappel 1]

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There's lots of ways to get on successive loads without being an asshole about it. How about taking a youngster on a free coach jump?

Like he said, it's all up to the DZO.

I've seen an Otter DZ destroyed by a 20-way team. The DZ went out of business. My guess is that it was partially due to fun jumpers, including me, being unable to jump and certainly unmotivated to refer students to the DZ.

The team was also quite partial to leaving their unpacked gear in the packing area so they could review the video.

On the other hand, teams tend to jump quite a bit and that can help keep the airplane flying and the DZ in business.

If the DZO is ok with double manifesting and other forms of "hording" slots, then that's the way it is. People who take advantage of the opportunity are not necessarily assholes. Neither is the DZO. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to take their business elsewhere and *should* take their business elsewhere.

Walt

[HeadCone 0]

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So Rich Dickie gets to the DZ before you and buys every slot on every load for himself...you don't get to jump that day while Dickie does 25 solos.

I wouldn't like it, but it's the DZO's DZ. And if this happens too often, I wouldn't have to worry about the DZ being around too long.

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4-way group shows up but 1 slot is already booked on every load...you don't get to play together.

4 fun jumpers wanting to play together in the sky..can't do it together because of the double-manifesting bitch

Realistically, that wouldn't happen. Especially at a small dz, if a load only has 2 but the next one is a 4-way, the 4-way is going to go. The next full load flies.

Of coarse, the DZO might get pissed if too many loads start flying out of order on the manifest sheet.

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Still stand by what you said?

Absolutely. Granted, the 10-rig example was extreme. People do need to be reasonable. I just don't think someone double manifesting is automatically an asshole.

--Head

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Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety!

http://www.citizensunitednegatingtechnology.org/

[hobie331 0]

All very valid points and I agree that double manifesting is wrong and would not walk in and put my name down on back to back loads. I was manifested on the next load and got the extra slot because no one else was ready. If I hadn't taken it, it was leaving with three aboard. The whole argument started because I said I was on back to back loads because I had two rigs. I could have taken more time to explain myself had I not been trying to keep the plane moving. In all honesty, I may have over reacted. The guy that approached me can tend to have a smug arrogant attitude at times but we have always gotten along and done some great jumps together. The smuggness just got to me as I was heading for the plane. That and once back on the ground when he was told what had happened at manifest he actually said, "I don't have a problem with it." Well if not, why start with it in the first place?
Well, now the aftermath. On Sunday as I was walking to the hangar we passed within a few feet. I greeted him with a "good morning" and he just mumbled something back at me. Actually, it was afternoon, so I said' " I mean good afternoon," again, a mumble. I went ahead and made a couple jumps then packed up to go home. Before leaving I went over to him and just kind of nugged him. He looked up and I said, "so, we going to jump together again, we OK." He smiled and said yes. I said, you sure and he said yes. I offered my hand and he shook it and I went home. We'll see.
You know what. Just look at my jump numbers. I'm a novice. I have alot to learn. I just don't tolerate ego's very well. But, life's short, the sky is big. There is just way to many skydives to make to dread going to the dz because you might run into somebody you've argued with. The guy is a good jumper, he has taught me alot and hopefully he'll teach me more. We'll see.

It's a gift, I don't try to explain it.