shropshire 0 #1 July 11, 2007 QuoteAstronomers say they may have detected the light from some of the earliest stars to form in the Universe. They have pictures of what appear to be very faint galaxies that shone more than 13 billion years ago, a mere 500 million years after the Big Bang. clicky (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #2 July 11, 2007 so if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? would that mean that no matter what direction you were looking out, you would be looking in to the center at the same point? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #3 July 11, 2007 Quoteso if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? would that mean that no matter what direction you were looking out, you would be looking in to the center at the same point? Woah my brain hurtsNever try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #4 July 11, 2007 >so if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually >watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every >direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? That's sorta what cosmic background radiation _is._ When the universe was about 380,000 years old it finally cooled enough to become transparent to photons - and there was a big burst of them. These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #5 July 12, 2007 Quote>so if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually >watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every >direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. . Nah, they just got tired.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #6 July 12, 2007 <> wot 'E said (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #7 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote>so if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually >watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every >direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. . Nah, they just got tired. don't you just hate those lazy photons sometimesHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #8 July 12, 2007 Quote>so if they could see another half a billion years farther, could they acually >watch they big bang? and if so, would they be able to see it in every >direction (sort of like cosmic backgroung radiation)? That's sorta what cosmic background radiation _is._ When the universe was about 380,000 years old it finally cooled enough to become transparent to photons - and there was a big burst of them. These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. Limited by opacity. The Universe was opaque for, IIRC, about the first 100,000 years. Even if we could see thru that opacity, we could never see the very beginning. At a certain scale, I believe called the Planck Limit, the concepts of distance, size, speed completely break down. Prior to that it will always be a matter of faith. NOW I'VE DONE IT, HEH!?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #9 July 12, 2007 As a matter of fact, seeing as how we were all there at the begining of the universe.... why didn't some think to take notes? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #10 July 12, 2007 Quotephotons - and there was a big burst of them. These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. The BG radiation is indeed the receding 'visible' surface of the aftermath of the big bang and is as far back as we can see ever, it will continue to fade and become lower frequency. The speed of the cosmic background radiation however remains the speed of light in all frames of reference, it is extremely red shifted into the microwave (not that this says anything directly about their initial frequency) because for us to encounter that emission after all these billions of years we had to be travelling away from their points of origin at incredible velocity. So it has not slowed, nor do I like to think of them as altering frequency, at every point in the universe the hypersphere of background radiation is forever encountering locations and frames of reference that are farther away and therefore faster receding relative to their initial journey. In those ever receeding frames of reference the radiation appears lower frequency. However you choose to think of it, it's definitely not slower. They are also dimmer thanks to the massive expanding surface area of the clearing sphere around us as the universe expands and ages (or alternatively the increasing volume for the radiation to occupy, either works), rather than the dopler shift. The BG radiation hypersphere is a beautiful thing to conceptualize, it's one of those stunning discoveries of physics that should filll anyone with awe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #11 July 12, 2007 QuoteAs a matter of fact, seeing as how we were all there at the begining of the universe.... why didn't some think to take notes? No pens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TrophyHusband 0 #12 July 12, 2007 Quote> These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. wouldn't we still be able to "see" this stuff, not in the visible light spectrum, but somewhere in the electromagnetic spectrum? Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. what would this free plasma look like? also, another question for you or kallend. if you were in a vehicle that could approach the speed of light and it was like the jetsons' car, with a big glass bubble so the visibility would be good, what would things look like when you sped up? as you approached a radio tower, would the doppler effect cause the antenna to become visible, first looking red, the shifting to violet as you sped up? as your speed increased, would you eventually get hit with x-rays and gamma rays? and what would it look like if you looked behind you, would everything disappear? or does the whole time slowing down as you speed up and the speed of light is the same for everyone thing keep this from happening? "Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama www.kjandmegan.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Programmer 0 #13 July 12, 2007 Chuck Norris can see what happened before the Planck Time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #14 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> Even if we could see thru that opacity, we could never see the very beginning. At a certain scale, I believe called the Planck Limit, the concepts of distance, size, speed completely break down. Prior to that it will always be a matter of faith. NOW I'VE DONE IT, HEH!? Well, right now there's a problem because both relativity and quantum mechanics apply in the immediate aftermath of the Big Bang, but quantum mechanics and relativity are incompatible as currently framed. HOWEVER, there is no reason to believe that this will always be the case. If a unification can be achieved by the theoretical physicists then there is no reason to think that we will be unable to figure out what was going on. Maybe the LHC will produce some Higgs bosons in the next few years. Already there is some evidence of the Higgs from Fermilab.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,151 #15 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. wouldn't we still be able to "see" this stuff, not in the visible light spectrum, but somewhere in the electromagnetic spectrum? Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. what would this free plasma look like? also, another question for you or kallend. if you were in a vehicle that could approach the speed of light and it was like the jetsons' car, with a big glass bubble so the visibility would be good, what would things look like when you sped up? as you approached a radio tower, would the doppler effect cause the antenna to become visible, first looking red, the shifting to violet as you sped up? as your speed increased, would you eventually get hit with x-rays and gamma rays? and what would it look like if you looked behind you, would everything disappear? or does the whole time slowing down as you speed up and the speed of light is the same for everyone thing keep this from happening? Try this site for some animations: ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/anima/rfslink.htm... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #16 July 12, 2007 QuoteChuck Norris can see what happened before the Planck Time. Actually, the start of the universe was not the Big Bang. It was the Roundhouse Kick.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,151 #17 July 12, 2007 Another astronomy story - water detected on extrasolar planet. www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=B66E323B-E7F2-99DF-36D284B02192381C&chanID=sa007... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 30 #18 July 12, 2007 Very cool. Considering its a hot giant, its probably even more promissing to find more water on smaller more earth like planets....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #19 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. wouldn't we still be able to "see" this stuff, not in the visible light spectrum, but somewhere in the electromagnetic spectrum? Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. what would this free plasma look like? You're made of what the plasma became, it was just a particle soup, expanding extremely quickly. The light it emitted and was freed to travel in straight lines when it became transparent is the BG microwave radiation, we were the plasma and right now at this instant everywhere in the universe has similarly condensed matter. What we see all around us is the photon flux from everything that happened between then and now, with the oldest light that emitted from the expanding particle soup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #20 July 12, 2007 All of the pens were there too..... even the now lost ones. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,596 #21 July 12, 2007 Quote All of the pens were there too..... even the now lost ones. Get your Beeblebrox Biros here...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scoop 0 #22 July 12, 2007 I thought God created all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #23 July 12, 2007 Wrong forum bozo (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,120 #24 July 12, 2007 >what would things look like when you sped up? as you approached a >radio tower, would the doppler effect cause the antenna to become visible, >first looking red, the shifting to violet as you sped up? Yep. That's a very big shift, so you'd have to be quite close to lightspeed to see it though. >and what would it look like if you looked behind you, would everything >disappear? It would fade to red and then become invisible. The photons would still be reaching you, but they'd be shifted into the infrared, then into the microwave, and finally into the region we consider radio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #25 July 12, 2007 So...we could screw with other civilizations by receiving them, shifting them back up in the spectrum and then re-transmitting them.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 2,151 #15 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. wouldn't we still be able to "see" this stuff, not in the visible light spectrum, but somewhere in the electromagnetic spectrum? Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. what would this free plasma look like? also, another question for you or kallend. if you were in a vehicle that could approach the speed of light and it was like the jetsons' car, with a big glass bubble so the visibility would be good, what would things look like when you sped up? as you approached a radio tower, would the doppler effect cause the antenna to become visible, first looking red, the shifting to violet as you sped up? as your speed increased, would you eventually get hit with x-rays and gamma rays? and what would it look like if you looked behind you, would everything disappear? or does the whole time slowing down as you speed up and the speed of light is the same for everyone thing keep this from happening? Try this site for some animations: ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/anima/rfslink.htm... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #16 July 12, 2007 QuoteChuck Norris can see what happened before the Planck Time. Actually, the start of the universe was not the Big Bang. It was the Roundhouse Kick.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #17 July 12, 2007 Another astronomy story - water detected on extrasolar planet. www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=B66E323B-E7F2-99DF-36D284B02192381C&chanID=sa007... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #18 July 12, 2007 Very cool. Considering its a hot giant, its probably even more promissing to find more water on smaller more earth like planets....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #19 July 12, 2007 QuoteQuote> These photons are still around, but have 'cooled' (slowed due to doppler shift) to microwave levels. wouldn't we still be able to "see" this stuff, not in the visible light spectrum, but somewhere in the electromagnetic spectrum? Unlikely we will "see" further than that, since photons were trapped within the free plasma of the cooling universe before that time. what would this free plasma look like? You're made of what the plasma became, it was just a particle soup, expanding extremely quickly. The light it emitted and was freed to travel in straight lines when it became transparent is the BG microwave radiation, we were the plasma and right now at this instant everywhere in the universe has similarly condensed matter. What we see all around us is the photon flux from everything that happened between then and now, with the oldest light that emitted from the expanding particle soup. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #20 July 12, 2007 All of the pens were there too..... even the now lost ones. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,596 #21 July 12, 2007 Quote All of the pens were there too..... even the now lost ones. Get your Beeblebrox Biros here...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #22 July 12, 2007 I thought God created all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #23 July 12, 2007 Wrong forum bozo (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,120 #24 July 12, 2007 >what would things look like when you sped up? as you approached a >radio tower, would the doppler effect cause the antenna to become visible, >first looking red, the shifting to violet as you sped up? Yep. That's a very big shift, so you'd have to be quite close to lightspeed to see it though. >and what would it look like if you looked behind you, would everything >disappear? It would fade to red and then become invisible. The photons would still be reaching you, but they'd be shifted into the infrared, then into the microwave, and finally into the region we consider radio. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #25 July 12, 2007 So...we could screw with other civilizations by receiving them, shifting them back up in the spectrum and then re-transmitting them.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
