caspar 0 #1 June 21, 2006 after a long waffley post that i deleted by accident and cant be arsed to type again i just wanted to ask: does the speed of opening directly translate into reliability of opening? (i read somewhere that base canopies open as reliabily as reserves or even better) my 2nd question is: as we want performance in our canopies we sacrifice opening charachteristics found in a reserve. students dont need this performance so i was wondering if student canopies are based on /are very similar to reserve design?"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #2 June 21, 2006 Quotedoes the speed of opening directly translate into reliability of opening? (i read somewhere that base canopies open as reliabily as reserves or even better) BASE and reserve canopies are packed more accurate way and a bit different than a skydiving main canopy. Anyway canopies are designed to open upto a certain speed like 120,130,150 knots. AFAK only reserve canopies must be certified. Quotemy 2nd question is: as we want performance in our canopies we sacrifice opening charachteristics found in a reserve. students dont need this performance so i was wondering if student canopies are based on /are very similar to reserve design? Every canopy is a compromise between several factors. There are so called all-around canopies, they are good for the most common purposes. Requirements of a student main and reserve canopy are different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caspar 0 #3 June 21, 2006 cheers dude, i thought they were probably dumb questions but it never hurts to ask!"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #4 June 21, 2006 No problem. There are famous reserve canopies out there. Some people claims they don't flare just stall. Would you put students under those beasts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #5 June 21, 2006 QuoteNo problem. There are famous reserve canopies out there. Some people claims they don't flare just stall. Would you put students under those beasts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, because they are too small. Most of the people who complain about "that" badly over-load their reserves, way heavier than the designer ever intended. For example, when the first Raven was designed in the early 1980s, hardly anyone flew a main canopy loaded at one pound per square foot. Ergo, Ravens fly great at wing-loadings of 0.7 or 0.9, but flare characteristics suffer when you load them significantly above 1:1. Even Precision Aerodynamics factory reps admit that Ravens fly poorly when loaded at 1.4 pounds per square foot. Which is why Precision introduced their R-Max series, so that skydivers could load them significantly more than one pound per square foot and still survive the landings. Heck! I have jumped an R-Max loaded about 1.8 and it still landed softly. While that jump cured my fear of tiny reserves, I would never buy an R-Max 118, preferring something in the 150 square foot range. To answer your question directly: yes I would cheerfully loan a Raven reserve to a student. One of our student rigs contains a Raven IV (282 square feet) reserve. A Raven III (249 square feet) would also be acceptable for students. However I would never loan a Raven 135 to a student because they would load it too heavily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #6 June 21, 2006 Don't take it so far. Just in the recommended WL range. Can you stall a reserve? Mostly yes. Can you stall a student canopy? Mostly not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johnsisland 0 #7 July 5, 2006 QuoteCan you stall a student canopy? Mostly not. When you say mostly not, are you refering to the canopies adjustment, or stupid students who take extra wraps on the brake lines? JArch? I can arch just fine with my back to the ground. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #8 July 5, 2006 QuoteWhen you say mostly not, are you refering to the canopies adjustment, or stupid students who take extra wraps on the brake lines? Taking extra wraps AFAK is not recommended. Yes, you can kill yourself even under a student canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #9 July 6, 2006 QuoteDon't take it so far. Just in the recommended WL range. Can you stall a reserve? Mostly yes. Can you stall a student canopy? Mostly not. You put the student under the same size reserve as the main and the chances of stalling are about the same. As Rob said, you load the student main like some people load their reserves and you will have the same result.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
