crazydiver 0 #1 June 16, 2006 To begin, I feel that a senior rigger should be able to construct or install a set of slider bumpers on a reserve...in fact, When installed correctly, I think its a very smart idea. However...would this not be considered a modification or alteration? Just throwing that out there for folks to chew on for a while. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #2 June 16, 2006 Quote However...would this not be considered a modification or alteration? Assembly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #3 June 16, 2006 QuoteQuote However...would this not be considered a modification or alteration? Assembly. not if the slider bumpers aren't included with the container or reserve and are also not mentioned in the rigging manual for either component. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #4 June 16, 2006 preventive maintenance. While I understand your point as to the rules in the book, I don't see how you would get busted for it unless you do it wrong (some how) and another rigger finds your bad work. If you do it right, I don't think most (95%) of riggers are going to call you on it or call the FED's on you for it. Now should the rig find it's way into a FAA loft run by a FAA inspector, that's another story, but the good news is I can't think of any inspectors who run lofts and do repacks. You could always get a master to sign off your work and CYA, then your good to go. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites crazydiver 0 #5 June 16, 2006 Quotepreventive maintenance. While I understand your point as to the rules in the book, I don't see how you would get busted for it unless you do it wrong (some how) and another rigger finds your bad work. If you do it right, I don't think most (95%) of riggers are going to call you on it or call the FED's on you for it. Now should the rig find it's way into a FAA loft run by a FAA inspector, that's another story, but the good news is I can't think of any inspectors who run lofts and do repacks. You could always get a master to sign off your work and CYA, then your good to go. ~ This could be true of any work done. Unless another rigger rinds it done incorrectly, they may not even know it was done aftermarket. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #6 June 16, 2006 what would be the benefits? Its not like you need the bumpers to protect the slider grommets, since a reserve will only have the slider come down the lines quickly maybe 2 or 3 times in its lifetime. (wild assumption) Although I do see a possible problem with it... if the bumpers somehow come loose during a deployment and travel up the lines, causing a hung slider on the reserve. Bumpers are also a (very small) snag hazard? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #7 June 16, 2006 Quote what would be the benefits? The slider bumper keeps the lines placed properly at the ends and in their proper orientation. If the link somehow turned sideways and the line loaded it from the side, it may not hold or possibly damaging/cutting the line on the barrel. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #8 June 16, 2006 Installing bumpers on reserve connector links is "standard practice" at the majority of manufacturers, lofts, etc. A couple of year ago, my boss out another DZ. The deal included a large pile of student-sized square reserves. About half of those reserves had been jumped. Their slider grommets had sharp little nicks, sharp enough to chew, cut, damage, etc. reserve suspension lines. Fortunately a few minutes - with emery cloth - smoothed over the damage. When I re-assembled those reserves, they all got new slider bumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #9 June 16, 2006 Silicon, tygon, or fabric? I opened a reserve one time to find the tygon bumper two feet up the lines after table deployment. Obviously not tied down. I prefer fabric these days but don't routinely install on rigs without. I see various tack jobs, safety tie, etc to keep link oriented.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,466 #10 June 16, 2006 Hi crazydiver, Interestingly, just two days ago I was visiting a rigger-friend and he had a reserve laying there with fabric bumpers (made of T-12 I recall and tacked to the link). He asked what I thought and I said that I would not pack it; they were not supplied by either the canopy mfr or the h/c mfr. Now if someone had gotten a FAA field approval, I'm OK with that. Just my worthless $0.02. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites linestretch 0 #11 June 17, 2006 Same here Rob, I've come across quite a few sliders that had burrs on them. Probably not enough to cause a bad day, but enough to make me think they should have bumpers.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #12 June 17, 2006 QuoteQuote what would be the benefits? The slider bumper keeps the lines placed properly at the ends and in their proper orientation. If the link somehow turned sideways and the line loaded it from the side, it may not hold or possibly damaging/cutting the line on the barrel. MEL As Jerry mentioned slider bumpers are not supplied by the manufacture of either the canopy or the H/C. To my knowledge none of the major manufactures cover them under AS8015B 5.1. In your opinion is it within a riggers authority to install them on a reserve/emergency assembly?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #13 June 17, 2006 Sparky, Actually PD supplies silicone bumpers with their Reserves that have the #4 Rapide Link. I did see at one time, some canopies that came with nylon ones for the #5 link like we make here. And in case they have stopped doing so, they did. Precision has/did have the cloth covers on the Micro Ravens to keep the lines gathered on the end. Those where OK, but the link still rotated at will. Glide Path/ Flight Concepts Int uses/used the heavy Plastic covers for the #5 link. My opinion is this. The manufacturers set precedence by including bumpers with their canopies and instruction manuals years ago. I think they have just become really cheap and dropped the ball on including them lately. PD wants to sell canopies with Slinks instead of Rapide links and I'm thinking other canopy manufacturers are thinking the same way. Well with one exception.....Red at Flight Concepts states that Slinks are not approved for use with his canopies. I am still tying to get him to think differently. In the end, I do not think covers are a mod or alteration to an appoved parachute. It would take something way out of line to create a problem there! BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #14 June 17, 2006 Well with one exception.....Red at Flight Concepts states that Slinks are not approved for use with his canopies. I am still tying to get him to think differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amusing!!! Flight Concepts will gleefully sell you "Cinch Links" with their mains. Hee! Hee! http://www.flightconcepts.com/orderforms.html Seems that Red's biggest problem is that he has not gotten around to certifying his version of soft links for reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #15 June 17, 2006 Quote Seems that Red's biggest problem is that he has not gotten around to certifying his version of soft links for reserves. Rob, I do not think he wants to get around to certifying any soft links for his reserves! And yes, he will/does sell soft links for his mains, but that's apples and oranges here. Blue ones, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #16 June 17, 2006 Mel, Thank you for the information and your input.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CrazyL 0 #17 June 22, 2006 This thread pretty much answers the slider bumper question. I have a question to add. Why do i continue to find PD reserves with rapide links that have webbing bumpers rather than the silicone bumpers that were supplied with the reserve canopy? Sure they will do similar job and as good as the supplied ones, but...What's the right thing to do according to the FAA? And what the heck is homey doing with the stock of PD silicone bumpers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #18 June 22, 2006 CZlarry, PD has supplied both types in the past. Look in the owners Manual, it references that if you have either type, you should/shall use them. Or something to that effect...... BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #19 June 22, 2006 Wouldn't a simpler solution to be for a rigger to inspect the slider gromets for burrs after a reserve deployment and buff them out as neccessary with emery paper? The main drawback I can see is that over time the gromets may become worn, but that should surely be picked up in an inspection and repack anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #20 June 22, 2006 Hi, You probably need to read through the whole thread . You missed the point in that the bumpers are very helpful in other ways than just protecting the grommets. Then repost. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #21 June 22, 2006 Hi Mel, I saw the post about the bumpers keeping the alignment of the lines on the links in order and orientation, but figured that this must be a minor issue - if it's not, why aren't bumpers installed / required as a matter of course on reserves? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites masterrigger1 2 #22 June 22, 2006 Will, That's basically the point! Most riggers know that the bumpers keep the lines in their proper location and in alignment with the riser end. When the rigger Finds a setup without the bumpers, he usally makes them. So the question was initally; "it this a alteration or mod?" Again; I would say not and is perfectly legal here in the USA.. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #23 June 22, 2006 ah! OK. Light dawns! Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #24 June 22, 2006 QuoteWouldn't a simpler solution to be for a rigger to inspect the slider grommets for burrs after a reserve deployment and buff them out as necessary with emery paper? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buff out a few hundred nicks and you will tire of the practice. Eventually, you will conclude that installing bumpers is less labour-intensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
crazydiver 0 #3 June 16, 2006 QuoteQuote However...would this not be considered a modification or alteration? Assembly. not if the slider bumpers aren't included with the container or reserve and are also not mentioned in the rigging manual for either component. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #4 June 16, 2006 preventive maintenance. While I understand your point as to the rules in the book, I don't see how you would get busted for it unless you do it wrong (some how) and another rigger finds your bad work. If you do it right, I don't think most (95%) of riggers are going to call you on it or call the FED's on you for it. Now should the rig find it's way into a FAA loft run by a FAA inspector, that's another story, but the good news is I can't think of any inspectors who run lofts and do repacks. You could always get a master to sign off your work and CYA, then your good to go. ~you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #5 June 16, 2006 Quotepreventive maintenance. While I understand your point as to the rules in the book, I don't see how you would get busted for it unless you do it wrong (some how) and another rigger finds your bad work. If you do it right, I don't think most (95%) of riggers are going to call you on it or call the FED's on you for it. Now should the rig find it's way into a FAA loft run by a FAA inspector, that's another story, but the good news is I can't think of any inspectors who run lofts and do repacks. You could always get a master to sign off your work and CYA, then your good to go. ~ This could be true of any work done. Unless another rigger rinds it done incorrectly, they may not even know it was done aftermarket. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #6 June 16, 2006 what would be the benefits? Its not like you need the bumpers to protect the slider grommets, since a reserve will only have the slider come down the lines quickly maybe 2 or 3 times in its lifetime. (wild assumption) Although I do see a possible problem with it... if the bumpers somehow come loose during a deployment and travel up the lines, causing a hung slider on the reserve. Bumpers are also a (very small) snag hazard? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #7 June 16, 2006 Quote what would be the benefits? The slider bumper keeps the lines placed properly at the ends and in their proper orientation. If the link somehow turned sideways and the line loaded it from the side, it may not hold or possibly damaging/cutting the line on the barrel. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 June 16, 2006 Installing bumpers on reserve connector links is "standard practice" at the majority of manufacturers, lofts, etc. A couple of year ago, my boss out another DZ. The deal included a large pile of student-sized square reserves. About half of those reserves had been jumped. Their slider grommets had sharp little nicks, sharp enough to chew, cut, damage, etc. reserve suspension lines. Fortunately a few minutes - with emery cloth - smoothed over the damage. When I re-assembled those reserves, they all got new slider bumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 June 16, 2006 Silicon, tygon, or fabric? I opened a reserve one time to find the tygon bumper two feet up the lines after table deployment. Obviously not tied down. I prefer fabric these days but don't routinely install on rigs without. I see various tack jobs, safety tie, etc to keep link oriented.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,466 #10 June 16, 2006 Hi crazydiver, Interestingly, just two days ago I was visiting a rigger-friend and he had a reserve laying there with fabric bumpers (made of T-12 I recall and tacked to the link). He asked what I thought and I said that I would not pack it; they were not supplied by either the canopy mfr or the h/c mfr. Now if someone had gotten a FAA field approval, I'm OK with that. Just my worthless $0.02. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linestretch 0 #11 June 17, 2006 Same here Rob, I've come across quite a few sliders that had burrs on them. Probably not enough to cause a bad day, but enough to make me think they should have bumpers.my pics & stuff! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 June 17, 2006 QuoteQuote what would be the benefits? The slider bumper keeps the lines placed properly at the ends and in their proper orientation. If the link somehow turned sideways and the line loaded it from the side, it may not hold or possibly damaging/cutting the line on the barrel. MEL As Jerry mentioned slider bumpers are not supplied by the manufacture of either the canopy or the H/C. To my knowledge none of the major manufactures cover them under AS8015B 5.1. In your opinion is it within a riggers authority to install them on a reserve/emergency assembly?My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #13 June 17, 2006 Sparky, Actually PD supplies silicone bumpers with their Reserves that have the #4 Rapide Link. I did see at one time, some canopies that came with nylon ones for the #5 link like we make here. And in case they have stopped doing so, they did. Precision has/did have the cloth covers on the Micro Ravens to keep the lines gathered on the end. Those where OK, but the link still rotated at will. Glide Path/ Flight Concepts Int uses/used the heavy Plastic covers for the #5 link. My opinion is this. The manufacturers set precedence by including bumpers with their canopies and instruction manuals years ago. I think they have just become really cheap and dropped the ball on including them lately. PD wants to sell canopies with Slinks instead of Rapide links and I'm thinking other canopy manufacturers are thinking the same way. Well with one exception.....Red at Flight Concepts states that Slinks are not approved for use with his canopies. I am still tying to get him to think differently. In the end, I do not think covers are a mod or alteration to an appoved parachute. It would take something way out of line to create a problem there! BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #14 June 17, 2006 Well with one exception.....Red at Flight Concepts states that Slinks are not approved for use with his canopies. I am still tying to get him to think differently. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amusing!!! Flight Concepts will gleefully sell you "Cinch Links" with their mains. Hee! Hee! http://www.flightconcepts.com/orderforms.html Seems that Red's biggest problem is that he has not gotten around to certifying his version of soft links for reserves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #15 June 17, 2006 Quote Seems that Red's biggest problem is that he has not gotten around to certifying his version of soft links for reserves. Rob, I do not think he wants to get around to certifying any soft links for his reserves! And yes, he will/does sell soft links for his mains, but that's apples and oranges here. Blue ones, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #16 June 17, 2006 Mel, Thank you for the information and your input.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyL 0 #17 June 22, 2006 This thread pretty much answers the slider bumper question. I have a question to add. Why do i continue to find PD reserves with rapide links that have webbing bumpers rather than the silicone bumpers that were supplied with the reserve canopy? Sure they will do similar job and as good as the supplied ones, but...What's the right thing to do according to the FAA? And what the heck is homey doing with the stock of PD silicone bumpers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #18 June 22, 2006 CZlarry, PD has supplied both types in the past. Look in the owners Manual, it references that if you have either type, you should/shall use them. Or something to that effect...... BS, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #19 June 22, 2006 Wouldn't a simpler solution to be for a rigger to inspect the slider gromets for burrs after a reserve deployment and buff them out as neccessary with emery paper? The main drawback I can see is that over time the gromets may become worn, but that should surely be picked up in an inspection and repack anyway? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #20 June 22, 2006 Hi, You probably need to read through the whole thread . You missed the point in that the bumpers are very helpful in other ways than just protecting the grommets. Then repost. MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #21 June 22, 2006 Hi Mel, I saw the post about the bumpers keeping the alignment of the lines on the links in order and orientation, but figured that this must be a minor issue - if it's not, why aren't bumpers installed / required as a matter of course on reserves? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrigger1 2 #22 June 22, 2006 Will, That's basically the point! Most riggers know that the bumpers keep the lines in their proper location and in alignment with the riser end. When the rigger Finds a setup without the bumpers, he usally makes them. So the question was initally; "it this a alteration or mod?" Again; I would say not and is perfectly legal here in the USA.. Cheers, MELSkyworks Parachute Service, LLC www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #23 June 22, 2006 ah! OK. Light dawns! Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #24 June 22, 2006 QuoteWouldn't a simpler solution to be for a rigger to inspect the slider grommets for burrs after a reserve deployment and buff them out as necessary with emery paper? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buff out a few hundred nicks and you will tire of the practice. Eventually, you will conclude that installing bumpers is less labour-intensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
