horshoe mal on a reserve

[Andy9o8 2]

A quick heads-up. If you have a good design/innovation idea, and haven't the slightest desire to make a dime off it, and just want to share it with the public, then go ahead and post it. But if you want to reserve the right to develop and market the design yourself, or license it out to someone who will, you first need to submit a patent application to protect your exclusivity rights. Otherwise (i.e., without having submitted a patent application), once you've published the design idea out in the public domain, it can be copied and marketed by anyone. It can even be patented by someone else who chooses to do so; and if that happens, you'll be precluded from marketing your own design, because the intellectual property will belong to the patent-holder. Just a word to the wise.

[caspar 0]

i just thought. im newbie with 100 jumps and only one year in the sport. i figured my idea although does make some sense is probably silly and not reallistic. it popped into my head and the only way i can share it and see if it would work would be to post here.

the fact you said that makes me so happy that you think it would be an idea worth nicking!!!

if it becomes standard (ha ha in a dream world!) then im happy with taking the credit! of course making money would be great but thats a bit late now i think unless manufacturers feel like employing a student bum who stilll sucks at packing

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[riggerrob 643]

Another thought ...
If you publish your idea immediately, then you make it difficult for someone else to patent the idea.
If they are the least bit slow ..
Later on, if they try to charge you licensing rights for "their" patent, and you can prove "prior art" in an old magazine or newspaper article about your idea, then you can tell them to stuff their patent where the sun don't shine.
More than one parachute manufacturer has avoided paying licensing fees by proving prior art.

[caspar 0]

i take it you guys are talking about licensing in general or just messing with me here? im very surprised this of all things came up in this thread so i guess this has maybe been discussed before and you guys are just having some fun fucking with the newbie.

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[JerryBaumchen 1,466]

Well put, Mick.

This should be required reading for anyone who thinks they have a better mousetrap. And sometimes they do.

Since Sparky has forfeited his Grey Goose, I'll buy you whatever when we do meet up.

Jerry

[riggermick 7]

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A quick heads-up. If you have a good design/innovation idea, and haven't the slightest desire to make a dime off it, and just want to share it with the public, then go ahead and post it. But if you want to reserve the right to develop and market the design yourself, or license it out to someone who will, you first need to submit a patent application to protect your exclusivity rights. Otherwise (i.e., without having submitted a patent application), once you've published the design idea out in the public domain, it can be copied and marketed by anyone. It can even be patented by someone else who chooses to do so; and if that happens, you'll be precluded from marketing your own design, because the intellectual property will belong to the patent-holder. Just a word to the wise.

Having been through this process a couple of times I can tell you that he's already published it!!! Just by posting it here he already has a date and time stamp on his invention (gotta love the internet). His next worry will be shareing the "discovery" with his partner in crime who helped on the project.

If it actually works (not necessary for a utility patent, the only criterion is that is novel and a couple of other things not too hard to prove (new and unthought of) He's going to need to test it against all other inventions covering the same topic.

If indeed he has a "winner" it could be somthing great if it is brought to the market correctly. You are not nessessarly going to get rich from it but may profit from it in some way.

Keep thinking it's good for the mind!!!


Mick.

[mjosparky 4]

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Since Sparky has forfeited his Grey Goose,

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[diablopilot 2]

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More than one parachute manufacturer has avoided paying licensing fees by proving prior art.

Like photos of hip rings on old 4 pin rigs?

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggermick 7]

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More than one parachute manufacturer has avoided paying licensing fees by proving prior art.

Like photos of hip rings on old 4 pin rigs?

Never seen em! Never paid a dime to Sandy. Tony Domenico and I "invented" rings for harnesses used for paragliding when Sandy Reid happened to drop by the shop and Tony jokingly said "hey wouldn't this be cool on a skydiving harness?". Well one year later the Flexon was born, go figure!!

The original intent of the hip rings was to stow the leg straps of the para gliding harness so they wouldnt snag on chair lifts at the top of the mountain. These early paragliding rigs looked like back packs with skydiving harnesses on them. In the early days of para gliding many people (in the summer months) would use ski fields to lanuch and land and then repeat the process many times over a single day. Because we have production logs and dates nothing ever came of it.
Mick.

[koppel 5]

hey sparky,

I got a Talon in for AIR today. Those pockets we were talking about. there are two of them. one 650mm from the top of the free-bag (pocket 200mm long) and then the next one on the other side of the bridle is 850mm further from the top of the first pocket.

This came from a 1998 Talon 2 (built in Australia by Parachutes Australia)

in the event of a horseshoe the pockets are no longer effective on this bridle as they would both have their mouths pointing away from the relative wind.

Are there any differences on the bridles of the RI built rigs?

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[mjosparky 4]

If I remember right the Talon bridal is about 15 feet long. If the 2 pockets are 650 mm (25”) for the first and 850mm (33”) more to the second one they are both on the bottom half. The half closest to the bag. With the PC hung up on the jumper pockets on the lower half of the bridle will still be pointed in the right direction.

See attachment:

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[koppel 5]

I need less late nights. Again I bow to your laurels Oh Bright One

of course that makes sense as to why they dont run the full length of the bridle as well,

Cheers

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[caspar 0]

but looking at that diagram i see one problem (again most likely wrong but thats what stands out to me), although they are facing the correct way, as the bag gets higher the bridle gets shorter on the bag side (if that makes sense) eventually these pockets will go over the peak of the bridle where it goes back down towards the PC and there fore become useless( as they are facing the wrong way), the question is, could these pockets still extract the reserve before this happens?

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[rigger_john 0]

Kiwi, you have loads or RI gear at RAPA, no comments?

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[teason 0]

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Yeah That old arguement, popular with the naysayers, one slight problem though, it assumes that a body is in a steady state and not moving. As we all know in free fall nothing is static, even unconcious jumpers are moving all over the place. We tried to duplicate this scenario but those pesky laws of physics kept getting in the way and wouldn't let happen.

It's a shame you bought in to the propaganda perpitrated
by people with agendas one of which is representing for rival manufacturers. Once it (negative propaganda) starts newer and more impressionable people buy in to it with out question and it becomes gospel even though it's BS. Some believe it through ignorance, some don't understand physics, most no nothing about equipment design and as we all know skydivers love to give their opinion on everything, weather it's right or not.

Mick.

Damn, why did I have to get to this thread so late!

Mick, a negative reception to a new idea is one of those constants in the universe. People, in general, don't like deviation from the status quo. We're all quilty of it.

There seems to be a need to either venerate or detract, balanced and fair views are few and far between and admitting you don't know something is not an oppurtunity to learn but an admission of inferiority.

Often, people want to seem in the know. They want to be seen as knowledgable. If they don't understand something they detract it because they fear what they don't understand. They start by looking for a weaknesses first and move on from there. Besides, people listen more when you say "that's dangerous" than "I'm not familiar with the system". The latter admits ignorance while the former assumes a greater level of knowledge than the even the manufacturer themselves.

It's obvious to see what appeals to people with ego (which we all have to some degree).
Also predicting that a device or system is flawed puts the maker of the claim in a unique position of not being able to be proven wrong. If I made the claim that dying cordura blue will eventually cause the gear to fail, I cannot be proven wrong because the statement is prediction of a future event. I can only be proven right if something does happen. As twisted as the logic is, it is commonly used in all walks of life (especially in polical punditry and religous ferver).

No system is perfect but if a perfect system was ever developed, you can gaurentee it would be labled a death trap faster than you can say "poptop".

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[riggerrob 643]

Hee!
Hee!

Too true Teason!

People hate it when I respond: "Ho hum. It works."
But they lack the patience for me to explain three other methods - that also work - and a lengthy discussion of the pros and cons of all the different methods.

I suspect that your average skydiver wants to hear "Model A is perfect and Model B is a death trap."
This reaffirms their decision to buy Model A.

Oh! ... and people LOVE the drama about the gory details of the latest "death rig."
Hee!
Hee!

[mjosparky 4]

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but looking at that diagram i see one problem (again most likely wrong but thats what stands out to me), although they are facing the correct way, as the bag gets higher the bridle gets shorter on the bag side (if that makes sense) eventually these pockets will go over the peak of the bridle where it goes back down towards the PC and there fore become useless( as they are facing the wrong way), the question is, could these pockets still extract the reserve before this happens?

Once you get the bag high enough for that to happen the canopy will deploy without the drag of the PC or the bridle. The hard part is just getting the bag to come out of the pack tray.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[mjosparky 4]

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Mick, a negative reception to a new idea is one of those constants in the universe. People, in general, don't like deviation from the status quo. We're all quilty of it.

This might have a positive effect in the long run. It makes people with new or different ideas to develop and refine their invention to a point where it can with stand a critical eye.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[caspar 0]

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but looking at that diagram i see one problem (again most likely wrong but thats what stands out to me), although they are facing the correct way, as the bag gets higher the bridle gets shorter on the bag side (if that makes sense) eventually these pockets will go over the peak of the bridle where it goes back down towards the PC and there fore become useless( as they are facing the wrong way), the question is, could these pockets still extract the reserve before this happens?

Once you get the bag high enough for that to happen the canopy will deploy without the drag of the PC or the bridle. The hard part is just getting the bag to come out of the pack tray.

so i guess that the bridle is designed to the same length as the lines so that by the time the bridle has gone as far up as possible with these "pockets" the reserve has reached line stretch and therefore "popped" the stows holding the free bag shut?

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[mjosparky 4]

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so i guess that the bridle is designed to the same length as the lines so that by the time the bridle has gone as far up as possible with these "pockets" the reserve has reached line stretch and therefore "popped" the stows holding the free bag shut?

That’s a good question. I don’t know the answer but I think I will make an effort to find out.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[teason 0]

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This might have a positive effect in the long run. It makes people with new or different ideas to develop and refine their invention to a point where it can with stand a critical eye

Very true, the only people worth listening to are the ones we disagree with. We'll always be stronger in a belief if we have to explain why we believe it. Either that or we'll see the flaw in our position. In any case we become better for it.

The frustration comes from those who refuse to listen. It wastes an oppurtunity to evolve our beliefs.

Now if anyone disagrees with that, I don't want to hear about it!

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[mjosparky 4]

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Very true, the only people worth listening to are the ones we disagree with.

I prefer to listen to only people who agree with me. It re-enforces my feeling of self worth. Plus I don’t have to think as much.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[caspar 0]

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The hard part is just getting the bag to come out of the pack tray.

with this line of thought, why dont they add more pockets to the bridle then to make sure that the freebag CAN leave the container? with the pockets facing the way they are they shouldnt make a normal deployment any different, right?

now, if they don't need to make the bridle longer so that these pockets work (i dont know the length of a reserve bridle) then why dont manufacturers have this modification? it seems like a no brainer to me (unless someone can explain a negative side to having these).

edit to add: seriously, manufacturers out there. why dont you have this modification?

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."

[riggermick 7]

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The hard part is just getting the bag to come out of the pack tray.

with this line of thought, why dont they add more pockets to the bridle then to make sure that the freebag CAN leave the container? with the pockets facing the way they are they shouldnt make a normal deployment any different, right?

now, if they don't need to make the bridle longer so that these pockets work (i dont know the length of a reserve bridle) then why dont manufacturers have this modification? it seems like a no brainer to me (unless someone can explain a negative side to having these).

edit to add: seriously, manufacturers out there. why dont you have this modification?

Because it dosn't work, there is not enough drag to extract a free bag containg a 5 lb (or more) reserve. That's why I developed the Catapult because it does work.




Mick.

[caspar 0]

and how does this affect a normal reserve deployment?

if you have two PC's do you have to reduce the size of the normal one? or just add this extra PC and get much faster openings?


edit : if the PC is attached at the reserve bridle with none of its own bridle i guess that snagging or additional wrapping of the reserve bridle isnt going to happen?

cheers for all the replies. this is a great way to learn about the kit and its limitations / strengths and of all the other options and possibilities out there,

"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading."