Any electricians out there???

[Morrison79 0]

I came home this afternoon to find that 3 rooms in the house have no power, the kitchen, bathroom and family room. I checked all the fuses and tried flipping every fuse switch. All the appliances still have power though.

My roommate said he was brushing his teeth before going to work and the shit just went out. All the GFI plugs seem to work except for the one in the bathroom. Anyone know if that can interupt the circuit for the other rooms?

Any suggestions would be appreciated since I don't want to spend money on an electrician.

Thanks

[billvon 3,120]

>All the GFI plugs seem to work except for the one in the bathroom.

Yes, it can. Several ways this can happen:

1) A GFI outlet in the bathroom tripped. Any outlet wired _downstream_ of this outlet will also be off after this happens. Wiring three rooms like this would be odd but not unheard of. (3 of the rooms in our house are run off 1 15A breaker.)

2) A GFI breaker tripped and needs to be reset. (Should be in the circuit breaker/fuse panel.)

3) The house is new enough to have arc-fault breakers (unlikely) and one of them went wonky.

4) You have a wiring problem. If it stays off, not much safety issue. If it flickers on and off, or seems to be at 'half power' when a lamp is plugged in DO NOT USE the circuit, and get it checked out. That's what starts fire.

[headoverheels 334]

Did you push the reset on the GFI socket in the bathroom?

[1969912 0]

Or a GFI could have just failed. I've heard that it's not all that uncommon. Never seen one fail though. I would hope that they're designed to fail open though.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Morrison79 0]

I tried to reset the GFI in the bathroom, but it would not reset. The button on the GFI would not stay in. Is this common when no power is running to it?

When the intial problem happened none of the circuits were broken in the fuse box. We tried reseting them all anyway with no luck.
I will replace the GFI tommorow and go from there,

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Morrison,

Working from memory here so take with a grain of salt.

I seem to remember that wall recepticles that are GFI's have two buttons. Try the 'other one' first and then try the RESET button.

Hope it helps,

JerryBaumchen

PS) I don't like wall recepticle GFI's .

[PhreeZone 20]

I just got done replacing a bad GFCI over the weekend. It would trip as soon as it was reset even when it was the end point of the circuit and noting was plugged into it. I replaced it with a new GFCI outlet and its been fine since then. It took me about 3 hours of testing every point on the circuit but I was able to verify it was a bad GFCI eventually. A bad GFCI fails closed - it kills itself and any outlets downwire of it.

GFCI outlets have a test and a reset, if hitting the reset ends up in it tripping right away you either have a short on the circuit or you've got a bad GFCI. Only replace a GFCI with a GFCI and follow the instuctions since you need to know what wires are load and which are leads.

You should test your GFCI's monthly by hitting the test then the reset, if they fail to take the right action then its a bad outlet and needs looked at.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[1969912 0]

You mean OPEN.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[billvon 3,120]

> I tried to reset the GFI in the bathroom, but it would not reset.
>The button on the GFI would not stay in. Is this common when no power
>is running to it?

No. The GFI should reset but fail the 'test' when no power is running to it. Replace the outlet; be sure to label the wires as someone else suggested.

[Zep 0]

Of course if you guys brought your wiring specs up to European standards half your problems wouldn't exist

Gone fishing

[billvon 3,120]

>Of course if you guys brought your wiring specs up to European standards
>half your problems wouldn't exist . . .

And if you guys could decide on one voltage/frequency - a lot of your problems wouldn't exist either!

[MikeForsythe 0]

Quote

And if you guys could decide on one voltage/frequency - a lot of your problems wouldn't exist either!

Not to mention the lack of grounding on sub - 220v outlets Nothing like having a non-grounded out in the bathroom.

Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is!

[1969912 0]

Quote

>Of course if you guys brought your wiring specs up to European standards
>half your problems wouldn't exist . . .

And if you guys could decide on one voltage/frequency - a lot of your problems wouldn't exist either!

Speaking of which, why was 50 Hz selected as the freq in some countries? Was it done by the Swiss as a way to make electric clocks more complicated, ensuring employment for clockmakers?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[jasonRose 0]

Short....

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[Zep 0]

Quote

>Of course if you guys brought your wiring specs up to European standards
>half your problems wouldn't exist . . .

And if you guys could decide on one voltage/frequency - a lot of your problems wouldn't exist either!

Eh, Europe's 230/380/50 kitchen and bathrooms must have protected dedicated circuits,
The UK I believe still runs 240/440/50 an any outlets in the bathroom must be a double wound transformer

Gone fishing

[1969912 0]

Quote

.....double wound transformer.

For isolation?



Any ideas about the genesis of the 50 hz frequency in the UK?



Is 60 hz used in some other European countries?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[Zep 0]

Quote

Quote

.....double wound transformer.

For isolation? Yes



Any ideas about the genesis of the 50 hz frequency in the UK? See below



Is 60 hz used in some other European countries?

No


How values were selected

The type of electricity delivered to homes and businesses was first direct current (DC) but then changed to AC electricity. The standard voltage level started at 110V, went to 240V, back to 110V, and then to 220V. The frequency started at 60Hz and then went to 50Hz in most areas.
Tesla starts AC

Early in the history or electricity, Thomas Edison's General Electric company was distributing DC electricity at 110 volts in the United States. Then Nikola Tesla the devised a system of three-phase AC electricity at 240 volts. Three-phase meant that three alternating currents slightly out of phase were combined in order to even out the great variations in voltage occurring in AC electricity. He had calculated that 60 cycles per second or 60Hz was the most effective frequency. Tesla later compromised to reduce the voltage to 110 volts for safety reasons.
Europe goes to 50Hz

With the backing of the Westinghouse Company, Tesla's AC system became the standard in the United States. Meanwhile, the German company AEG started generating electricity and became a virtual monopoly in Europe. They decided to use 50Hz instead of 60Hz to better fit their metric standards, but they kept the voltage at 110V.

Unfortunately, 50Hz AC has greater losses and is not as efficient as 60HZ. Due to the slower speed 50Hz electrical generators are 20% less effective than 60Hz generators. Electrical transmission at 50Hz is about 10-15% less efficient. 50Hz transformers require larger windings and 50Hz electric motors are less efficient than those meant to run at 60Hz. They are more costly to make to handle the electrical losses and the extra heat generated at the lower frequency.
Europe goes to 220V

Europe stayed at 110V AC until the 1950s, just after World War II. They then switched over to 220V for better efficiency in electrical transmission. Great Britain not only switched to 220V, but they also changed from 60Hz to 50Hz to follow the European lead. Since many people did not yet have electrical appliances in Europe after the war, the change-over was not that expensive for them.
U.S. stays at 110V, 60Hz

The United States also considered converting to 220V for home use but felt it would be too costly, due to all the 110V electrical appliances people had. A compromise was made in the U.S. in that 220V would come into the house where it would be split to 110V to power most appliances. Certain household appliances such as the electric stove and electric clothes dryer would be powered at 220V.


But Japan is a nightmare,

In Japan, they use the same voltage everywhere, but the frequency differs from region to region. Eastern Japan, which includes Tokyo, uses 50Hz. In western Japan, which includes Osaka and Kyoto, they use 60 Hz.

The reason for this is that after World War II, Britain was in charge of helping reconstruct Japan's electrical system in the easter part of the country and the United States set up the electricity in the western part of Japan. Since Great Britain (United Kingdom) had been using 60Hz before the war and had just switched over to the European 240V 50Hz, it is strange that they set up Japan at 100V and 50Hz, especially when the U.S. was using 60Hz.

Having different voltages and frequencies within the country not only must be confusing for the people but also can result in extra costs for appliances and adapters.


In conclusion

The voltage and frequency of AC electricity varies from country to country throughout the world. Most use 220V and 50Hz. About 20% of the countries use 110V and/or 60Hz to power their homes. 220V and 60Hz are the most efficient values, but only a few countries use that combination. The United States uses 110V and 60Hz AC electricity.

Gone fishing

[billvon 3,120]

>The UK I believe still runs 240/440/50 an any outlets in the
>bathroom must be a double wound transformer

That would be a massive transformer if it has to handle hair dryers! I like the idea behind GFI; a lot lighter/smaller.