yanknbank 0 #101 October 20, 2007 QuoteThe vapor cloud in question is common and a result of the g-forces, not speed. QuoteThese guys routinely swooped between the hangars, to within a few feet of the runway and then pulled a hard vertical. The vapor cloud appeared at the instant of transition and dissipated, when they let-off the stick. Not sure if this is the "vapor cloud" in question in this thread but the "vapor cloud" you're talking about isn't necessarily caused by the "G-forces" (aka load factor). When the aircraft pulls into the vertical, the lift created by the aircraft is dramatically increased in a short period of time. This causes the density of the air on top of the lifting surfaces to drop accordingly (see Bernouli's Principle). It's a similar mechanism to the transonic aircraft "squeezing" the moisture out of the air in straight and level flight (the "vapor cloud" discussed in this thread), just accomplished differently. The G-forces are just a side product of the aircraft creating that much lift and causing a dramatic change in direction in a short period of time (see Newton's First Law of Motion). I may just be talking out of my ass though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kschilk 0 #102 October 20, 2007 You might be right. After all, this was a top pilot talking to an enlisted mech....he mighta' felt the need to just "dumb it down" for me. "T'was ever thus." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #103 October 20, 2007 Quote Wow this picture has been retouched more times than the kid on the WTC twin towers. I found a site with the original picture which has been veririfed as authentic. Quote This is the first picture captured of a new high speed aircraft that defies all traditional notions from aerodynamics, to propulsion, to seating, to flying. It is capable of carrying two people, but as shown in the picture, can be flown by remote control or completed automate using a revolutionary new GPS system. I bet the pilot belongs to Tailhook.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #104 October 20, 2007 Here are some references. Transonic cone cloud: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl-Glauert_singularity Lift or Hight AOA clouds: http://www.eng.vt.edu/fluids/msc/gallery/gall.htm (click on "condensation") There is a pretty good pic attached that shows the condensation forming in the strakes of an F-18 flying at a high angle of attack. There is high pressure air under the strakes, and when it spills up over the eges of the strakes it rapidly expands. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akjmpplt 0 #105 October 20, 2007 Quote One aviation page said that the planes are in the FAA Experimental category, which does not allow commercial rides. All the operator has to do is get a letter of excemption allowing the rides. I flew the Collings B-24, it is licensed in the Experimental category and we were allowed to do paying rides in it. What wasn't in our letter was dropping skydivers which is why the last couple of years that the bombers were at Quincy they didn't haul jumpers in the Liberator.SmugMug Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #106 October 20, 2007 I'd check your math but I don't do metric. So at the speed of light you'd cease to exist? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #107 October 20, 2007 Quote I'd check your math but I don't do metric. So at the speed of light you'd cease to exist? Here are non-metric input numbers if you would like to check the calcs. Speed of light=186,282.4 mile/second Length of AN-2=40 feet Guestimated AN speed=85 miles/hour My HP15 couldnt deal with the number of decimal places needed (1 - 1.6 x 10^-14 is too cloe to 1) so I grabbed a free 5000 digit calc here: http://web.ukonline.co.uk/home52365/bcalc.htm It's an 85K zip file. The equation is attached and a few posts up there is a link to a Wiki page about Lorentz contraction. Regarding your question. Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction is just the way a moving body appears to a fixed observer. The size of the object doesn't actually change. It's been years since I took physics, so don't quote me I seem to remember that there is a change in mass proportional to speed, which would imply an infinite mass at lightspeed, but that goes back a ways. I'll look it up. The post was just a joke intended to lighten the thread up a bit, but the contraction does in fact occur, but the amount of contraction doesn't become important until speeds are really high, relativistically high. An object will appear 10% shorter only at around 1/2 the speed of light (see attached graph). At 85 mph the AN contraction is infinitesimally small. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #108 October 20, 2007 Picture #14 is obviously photochopped... None of the ground crew is mooning the flyby.......................... A shout out to all the DZ.commers who remember Chile, "Hiya Folks!" ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #109 October 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote WAY COOL!!! I wonder what kind of concussion the nearby boats and peeps recd?? I heard ordinary people (for a price) could go for rides in Flordia??? I wonder if this sorta ride is possible... I've done a back seat ride in an F16... and I'm ordinary!! I've been catapulted off the Carl Vinson and the Eisenhower, and I'm ordinary too. This doesn't count, Doc!!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #110 October 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote WAY COOL!!! I wonder what kind of concussion the nearby boats and peeps recd?? I heard ordinary people (for a price) could go for rides in Flordia??? I wonder if this sorta ride is possible... I've done a back seat ride in an F16... and I'm ordinary!! I've been catapulted off the Carl Vinson and the Eisenhower, and I'm ordinary too. I missed this reply (mixed in with all the drama) CATAPULTED off two! That would have been FUN! You might be ordinary, but you're a bit luckier than I to have those experiences.... but then again.... I've got some cool stories that I wouldn't trade for a Space Shuttle Launch so I shouldnt be envious.... but two launches! wow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #111 October 21, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koAQN3n4pcw"Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
