canopy question.... PLEASE HELP

[J.9 0]

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

[DJL 235]

I jumped a Tri 160 for about 150 jumps. Absolutely no complaints. I just began to want something more spiffy. By the way, if you'd like to buy my 160, it's for sale.
It's a CRW-Hybrid model, meaning that it's cut and flies like a regular freefall Tri, but has all the CRW mods.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Buried 0]

triathlons can sometimes wrap people.. oh wait that is b/c of CRW .
the triathlon will be very comparable to the spectre. just dont get a tail pocket

Where is my fizzy-lifting drink?

[waltappel 1]

Quote

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

I have hundreds of jumps on a Triathlon 175 and have jumped a Triathlon 160, so I can offer a little food for thought.

First, the Triathlon's flare is nothing like the flare on a Sabre or Stiletto. The Sabre and Stiletto have a really powerful flare that make them very easily surfable and very forgiving if you mistime your flare.

By comparison, the Triathlon's flare is far less dramatic and not as forgiving. I'm not knocking the Triathlon--I think it's an awesome canopy and I get great landings with it.

Something you'll notice far sooner than the flare, though, is the ZP fabric of the Triathlon. It's FAR less slick than ZP used to make Performance Designs canopies and there is no long break in period during which packing is difficult because of seriously slippery fabric.

If you get a new Triathlon, there are some great options available to you if you think you might want to do some CRW. I ordered my Triathlon hybrid with Dacron lines, a tailpocket, and a retractable pilot chute. If you think you might want to do some CRW at some point (and I think it's a *great* idea!), then at minimum be sure to get Dacron lines and the retractable pilot chute. Dacron lines are certainly bulkier, but are much easier to work with when doing CRW. The retractable pilot chute is a real plus too. You can get a regular collapsible pilot chute also if you want and use that when not doing CRW. The retractible PC is a nice thing to have in your gear bag for CRW.

I've used my Triathlon on some hairy demos, and consider it to be really outstanding for that. It's great for accuracy and I've never had a cell pressurization problem in turbulent air. By comparison, I've had a Sabre 170 in turbulent air and watched it breathe. It wasn't a problem--I just applied some brakes--but in my experience the Triathlon has better stability and cell pressurization in turbulence than the Sabre at roughly the same loading.

Triathlons have really nice stall recovery characteristics. I do stall turns on mine a lot and have done them quite low (according to one witness treetop level, but I think it was a little higher), knowing that my canopy would recover beautifully. It's a rock-solid stable parachute.

More recently I have started doing CRW and it's definitely built for it, with lots of reinforcing tape along the leading edge.

I weigh around 170 lbs. and find that the difference in forward speed between my canopy and a Triathlon 160 with Spectra lines is quite noticeable.

All considered, I think the Triathlon is a very versatile parachute and I love mine, but I would highly recommend jumping plenty of demo canopies before you decide what to buy.

Walt

[quade 4]

Quote

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

I'm assuming you've gotten advice from your local instructors about the size of the canopy vs. your weight, skill level and where you normally jump so I'm only going to address what I see as the differences between the Triathalon and the Spectre.

First . . . have you jumpped both types of canopies yet at the same size?

I found both canopies open in a similar fashion, but I really didn't like the landings on the Triathalon compared to the Spectre.

Your experience -may- differ, but I'd suggest doing a couple of demo jumps on similar sized canopies before you decide.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[skybytch 273]

Quote

Something you'll notice far sooner than the flare, though, is the ZP fabric of the Triathlon. It's FAR less slick than ZP used to make Performance Designs canopies and there is no long break in period during which packing is difficult because of seriously slippery fabric.

Newer Triathlons are built from the same slippery stuff as PD canopies.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Quote

Something you'll notice far sooner than the flare, though, is the ZP fabric of the Triathlon. It's FAR less slick than ZP used to make Performance Designs canopies and there is no long break in period during which packing is difficult because of seriously slippery fabric.

Newer Triathlons are built from the same slippery stuff as PD canopies.

That's a real shame.

Walt

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

I started on a Triathlon. The Spectre is definately the better of the two canopies.

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Quote

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

I started on a Triathlon. The Spectre is definately the better of the two canopies.

I'm sure that depends on what you are using it for.

Walt

[Samurai136 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

So, I am still a baby jumper. I have 40 jumps and I just started jumping a spectre 170 and I will stay on that for a little while, but I have my eye triathlon 160. I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy, very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon. Any advice would be helpful. Just looking for more opinions....

I started on a Triathlon. The Spectre is definately the better of the two canopies.

I'm sure that depends on what you are using it for.

Walt

You're right! The Triathlon makes an excellent car cover!

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[Guest 1010]

(newbie here)

I have 40 jumps on Triathlon 190s, old and new, and 100 on my Spectre 190, so that is my only comparison. I love the Spectre and didn't buy a new TRI even at $700 as they were offered a couple months ago.

Compared to the Spectre I found the TRI to be MUCH more prone to line twists, which happened several times, incl the one time I've contemplated chopping (because of the twists). My only hard opening (dazed, "WTF just happened") was on a TRI, and I found it much harder to make anything happen with the front risers.

If the Spectre doesn't do much for you, I'd demo/rent other canopies (with instructor/dz staff concurrence) until you find something you like.


.02

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I'm sure that depends on what you are using it for.

Same here, I've jumped both. For your average skydiver or a skydiver that wants to progress to other and possibly higher performance canopies the Spectre is the way to go.

You remember the old ads that said "Triathalon, the canopy that does everything." Well, I say "Triathalon, the canopy that does everything really poorly."

The openings are better on a Spectre, the flare is better on a Spectre...the Spectre flies better all around. You don't have to have one for demos, you don't have to have one for CReW, I can't think of a specific reason why you would *have* to have a Tri for any specific kind of jump.

Obviously I tell jumpers at my DZ to demo both and see for themselves. When they ask about a Triathalon, I don't say anything about what I personally think about the canopy. I just tell them to jump one. In 4 years I've yet to see anyone buy one.

Like I said, that's IMO, there's different kinds of canopies for a reason. People like different things.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[popsjumper 2]

Exactly.

I always recommend the Tri for new jumpers and the Spectre is it's equal with slightly better flare characteristics which wouldn't be highly noticable to a newer jumper.

The Tri is easy-opening, docile, handles turbulence well, flares VERY nicely and can fly every bit as good as your skills allow. It's easy to learn canopy piloting skills and very good for preparing you for more HP canopy work.

You can get a very nice plane out with a Tri but you probably aren't going to win any swooping contests with it...nor with the Spectre.

Those guys telling you to stay away from a Tri are badly mistaken. Are they Swoopers flying HP canopies? Or is your DZ a PD-phile DZ? You know how DZs develop a "character set" dependent on the prevailing attitudes, right.

At your level, you won't go wrong with a Tri, or a Spectre for that matter, and the re-sale value is very good for when you want to downsize or trade it for HP canopies.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

(newbie here)...Compared to the Spectre I found the TRI to be MUCH more prone to line twists, which happened several times, incl the one time I've contemplated chopping (because of the twists). My only hard opening (dazed, "WTF just happened") was on a TRI, and I found it much harder to make anything happen with the front risers.

This is funny because every canopy gets bashed by somebody for things that most others do not experience. Bad openings can be had on ANY canopy for several different reasons..including the need for a new line set or just a lemon off the line.

So to counter...never had a bad opening that I didn't cause myself with high vertical speed at throw-out or packing error....regardless of the canopy I was flying.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[waltappel 1]

Quote

You're right! The Triathlon makes an excellent car cover!

lol--that's a good one.

I understand why many are not crazy about Triathlons, but whether a Triathlon is a good choice really depends on how you fly a parachute. I can quite comfortably stall and recover my Triathlon at 200 ft. or lower. I wouldn't even consider trying that on a Spectre.

I can fly it through seriously turbulent air and not worry about it collapsing. So far, it seems pretty ok for CRW. I've done some seriously tight demos with it. I've jumped camera with it. It's performed beautifully on every type of jumping I've done on it.

Walt

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

Those guys telling you to stay away from a Tri are badly mistaken. Are they Swoopers flying HP canopies? Or is your DZ a PD-phile DZ? You know how DZs develop a "character set" dependent on the prevailing attitudes, right.

Right, that's why I jump the student canopies when I get the chance, I also enjoy jumping our Sabre2s, Silhoette and Navigators. That's also why my first canopy was a Heatwave and the canopy I jump now is made by Icarus.

For me its not about brands or what anyone else jumps. Its about what I find to be a better canopy for different kinds of skydiving.

Quote

I can fly it through seriously turbulent air and not worry about it collapsing.

That's pretty misleading. Any canopy can collapse in turblent winds. Yes, even the airlocked canopies.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 3,111]

>I am hearing a difference of opinions. Some say yes great canopy,
>very functional and safe..... others say stay away from the triathlon.

The Triathalon is a decent canopy. I put about 200 jumps on Triathalon 135's, 160's and 190's years ago. They were always good to me. Not as good a glide as most other canopies, but good flare, reliable soft openings, and good in turbulence. If you get a good deal on one, it's probably worthwhile.

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

...The openings are better on a Spectre....

Nah...can't say that when the Tri's slider is a almost infallable adjustment for opening speed...as is the Spectre's.

I respect your experience but I have to say that mine has been quite different with respect to the Triathlon.

My 3 weird openings (over 400 jumps on a Tri) were all caused by me...not the canopy. All other openings were soft and always on-heading.

But like I said...the Spectre is a good one for him, too. They are almost twin sisters built for the same market niche.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Quote

I can fly it through seriously turbulent air and not worry about it collapsing.

That's pretty misleading. Any canopy can collapse in turblent winds. Yes, even the airlocked canopies.

Fair enough. I have flown it through seriously turbulent air and had no worries about it collapsing. It didn't breathe at all.

Walt

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

I respect your experience but I have to say that mine has been quite different with respect to the Triathlon.

Thats why I posted my feelings and experiences. In the past there have been some straight out "I love my Tri, its the best canopy on the market, no other canopy should ever be made" type posts without any other input.

Someone should see both sides prior to a purchase. They should also demo prior to a purchase.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[waltappel 1]

Quote

Someone should see both sides prior to a purchase. They should also demo prior to a purchase.

Amen--demo canopy programs are a wonderful thing!

Walt

[popsjumper 2]

I'm definitely with you and Walt on that!

And you're right...there's canopy-phobes for every manufacturer out there...and it's sad.

Hopefully the OP will take this to heart and try 'em.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Compared to the Spectre I found the TRI to be MUCH more prone to line twists, which happened several times, incl the one time I've contemplated chopping (because of the twists). My only hard opening (dazed, "WTF just happened") was on a TRI, and I found it much harder to make anything happen with the front risers.

I've found line twists rather rare on the triathlon, and the ones I've had were easily blamed on a dropped shoulder (esp the night jump). Other than the pain of the head being pinned down, it flies quite straight until I get out of it. It's also extremely tolerant on packing.

I recently bought the $700 tri, selling my 1998 tri for $500. No question that it was worthwhile. The older one, though easier to pack with the 'other' ZP fabric, had a really slow flare. I found it very difficult to achieve a plane out, something that is very easy on a Spectre. I adjusted by starting to flare a couple feet higher. But the new one does have the better flare as Aerodyne claimed (can easily pop up now) and if I could retune my clock as to when I should be putting my foot down, I'll get something ressembling a swoop.

$700 new versus double for a Spectre- that's an easy one, esp for a low timer who expects to change again within a year or two. But downsizing from a spectre 170 to a tri 160....demo it first when you're at that point.

[Guest 1010]

the OP asked for opinions ... YMMV. I like Spectres over TRIs.

If the TRI wasn't a good student and beginner canopy it wouldn't be in so many student/rental rigs. And though yes its true a Spectre may have treated me the same as the TRI did, given whatever my inputs were, I don't believe that to be the case.

Like I think we have all said, it'd be worth demo-jumping these canopies esp since so close in size/performance to see if the change contemplated is worth it.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[bwilling 0]

Quote

They are almost twin sisters built for the same market niche.

I don't have a lot of jumps on either, but that mirrors my opinion given my limited jumps on both the Spectre and Tri. I've only got jumps on a newer Tri (v5.0), but I think it compares favorably with the Spectre of almost the same size that I used to own, and I'm sure as hell not sorry I paid $700 for a brand new canopy.

Well... except that packing it sucks!

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."