P-38 found in Wales

[Zing 2]

One of those odd footnotes of history, is that deployment of the dive flap for the P-38s already in the European Theater was delayed when the first shipment of refit flap kits was on board one of the first DC-4s to get near England, I think in 1944, but may have been late 1943.
The aircraft was intercepted by British fighters, who did not recognize the DC-4/C-54 design, and shot it down, believing it was the long-feared debut of a rumoured German 4-engine heavy bomber.
It took months to manufacture a second batch of kits and get them to the Allied Forces.
A friend's dad from down the street crashed in a P-38 pulling out of a dive into the compressibility range and was paralyzed from the waist down. He told the story a few times about how he had both feet up on the instrument panel, pulling the yoke back with all his might, seeing the nose finally start to come up as he passed 12,000 feet ... and knowing he wasn't going to make it. He was horribly burned in the post-crash fire. I never heard him birch or complain even one time about his fate.
If that DC-4 had arrived safely, Gar's airplane would have been one of the first squadrons retrofitted with the dive-flap.

Zing Lurks

[kschilk 0]

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Can you photoshop an AN-2 to look like a P-38?

Call it an AN-Twice.

Oooooh yeah! Just call me....Al Jumpit!!

"T'was ever thus."

[PhreeZone 20]

I've got some decent photos of Glacier Girl from this summer. She was parked next to a P-40 and about 90 P-51's.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[usedtajump 1]

There was a P-82 that sat on display just outside the barracks I lived in when in basic training at Lackland AFB in San Antonio. Turns out that the CAF has that actual aircraft their inventory, however. doesn't appear to be flyable anymore.http://www.p82.org/history.html
Never got tired of looking at that thing and in retrospect, feel lucky to have even seen one.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[kschilk 0]

I used to drive truck and when you're on the road that much, you get to see some interesting things. In the later 80s, I was westbound on I-80 in PA and about 10 miles short of the Ohio line. It was just before sunup and strangely, I hadn't seen any eastbound traffic at all, for quite a while. As I entered a long, straight-stretch of the Interstate, I saw a 2 mile or so line of police and military vehicles, with all kinds and colors of flashing lights, coming eastbound in the distance. In the midst of all of these vehicles was something huge but I couldn't quite make out what it was.

After a couple more miles and when it was directly across the median from me, I saw that it was a Superfortress....the Enola Gay! She was loaded on a heavy-hauler flatbed, with the wings off but loaded alongside the fuselage. I later learned that she was being transported to the museum in D.C. and all the security, was for fear of an attack by the anti-nuke groups. It was as close as I've ever been to her but it was still an awesome sight!

While stationed in Norfolk, FIFI, the last "flying" Superfortress made a visit to the general aviation side of the Norfolk Airport and I took my kids to see her. It was one of the Confederate Air Force planes and when the crew learned I was active-duty, they allowed me, my daughter and two sons to go aboard and tour the aircraft....even got to sit in the pilot's seat! It was an incredible experience! Here are some of the pics I managed to dig-up. I took them with a 24mm wide-angle lens and you can see how far back I still had to get, to get the 141 ft. wingspan into the shots. The black ring around the edges is from a polarizing filter I was using. I believe this was in '92 or '93.

"T'was ever thus."

[cloudseeker2001 0]

Cool post and thanks for the pics.

Have you ever seen the Nova special about the KIKI Bird that had run out of fuel at some time around the end of the war? Pilots landed it and started walking. They left it there for 50 years or so unitl some guy thought he could rebuild and fly it out.......it took him a few years, but a peice of equipment broke loose and started a fire just before take off.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[Zing 2]

http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071114/ids_photos_wl/r326313877.jpg

Here's another warbird soon to slavaged and possibly restored. It just showed up on the news wire tonight.

Zing Lurks

[kschilk 0]

Unfortunately, I haven't seen the special but I'd heard "rumors" about it. I wondered if it was actually fact, now I know that it was! Thanks! I'll try to search it up.

"T'was ever thus."

[airtwardo 7]

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http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071114/ids_photos_wl/r326313877.jpg

Here's another warbird soon to slavaged and possibly restored. It just showed up on the news wire tonight.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kschilk 0]

With that kind of history behind it, it most certainly MUST be saved....I hope they do restore it!

"T'was ever thus."

[mnealtx 0]

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But I'm pretty sure the compressibility issue was with the P-38, right?

yup~!

Kinda. The P-38 had more problems due to the large stabilizer, but the Jug and Mustang had their problems with compressibility, too, according to what I've read.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jraf 0]

When it cmes to restoration the Fantasy of Flight in Polk City, FL is about the best place in the world I can imagine. They have a P-38 salvaged in two parts from the Honduran Air Force and are going to have it restored. Anyone coming to Deland or Zhills can see it - it's in a back room nicely piled up and waitng for it's turn. They have piles, and i mean piles of planes waiting to be restored and they have the largest private collection of antique planes in the world. It always is fun to go there.

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[airtwardo 7]

They have piles, and i mean piles of planes waiting to be restored and they have the largest private collection of antique planes in the world. It always is fun to go there.

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Even MORE impressive...it's not 'they' it's 'he' as in Kermit Weeks.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[squirrel 0]

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They have piles, and i mean piles of planes waiting to be restored and they have the largest private collection of antique planes in the world. It always is fun to go there.

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Even MORE impressive...it's not 'they' it's 'he' as in Kermit Weeks.

he was featured on a History channel modern marvels show...."Private Collections"

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[airtwardo 7]

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They have piles, and i mean piles of planes waiting to be restored and they have the largest private collection of antique planes in the world. It always is fun to go there.

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Even MORE impressive...it's not 'they' it's 'he' as in Kermit Weeks.

he was featured on a History channel modern marvels show...."Private Collections"

I liked his comment about asking how much the fuel costs to fly the B-29...if you gotta ask, ya can't afford it.

Kermit is an amazing guy, his hangar in Oshkosh is the main staging point for all the air show aircraft...A few years ago I introduced my boys to him, they still have their Russian first names so Kermit starts talking to the in perfect Russian!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Fozz 0]

That was Darrel Greenamyer (SP?) and Red Baron Aviation I think. They spent months rebuilding (installing new motors etc.)on the ice only to lose it shortly before takeoff in a taxi test I think. It was a huge loss the plane was a puddle by the time it burned out
It was believed to be the best complete sample ever found abandoned.

He was also the first/ only guy to own an F104 starfighter??? as a civilian
A very talented man and pilot

John Fosgate
"In the end, its always best to choose the hard right over the easy wrong." LouDiamond
MB 4310
www.N3Racing.com

[rapter 0]

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I always thought the P-61 Black Widow nightfighter was cool too. Anybody remember the designation for the split-tail that was made from two P-51s?

P-82

"looked" like two P-51s, Totally different airframes

Only the good die young, so I have found immortality,

[squirrel 0]

i remember seeing this nova show....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird

________________________________
Where is Darwin when you need him?

[airtwardo 7]

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I always thought the P-61 Black Widow nightfighter was cool too. Anybody remember the designation for the split-tail that was made from two P-51s?

P-82

"looked" like two P-51s, Totally different airframes

"Looked" like two P-51's 'cause it was...


Production Notes and History:
The F-82 Twin Mustang was actually designed with the very real purpose of providing the United States Air Force with a potent long-range fighter escort while allowing a fatigued pilot some rest while a copilot / navigator took over the controls on extended flights. This design theory provided the basis for the unique-looking Twin Mustang, which was basically two P-51H model Mustangs fused at the wings, connected by an elevator at rear and becoming an effective twin boom design. Controls in each separate cokcpit were redundant, allowing the pilots to share piloting and weapons duty as the situation allowed.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[AggieDave 6]

They were based on the fuselage, but it was a new design and had a lengthened fuselage. The early versions had dual controls, but the later controls left the pilot on the left and a radar operator on the right.

They weren't really used in WWII, but in the Korean War.

One of my all time favorite planes.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kallend 2,138]

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The other nick name for the P-38?

Two P-40s with a coffin in the middle.

Only lost the nickname when they figured out the problem of the compressibility stall.

It was my favorite plane as a kid. Kelly Johnson could sure design a beautiful bird.

Wow. I forgot about the compressibilty issue. That plane really pushed into transonic flight during power dives. Read about it in 6th grade but forgot.

Several WWII fighters had compressibility problems. Hawker Tempests had similar symptoms as P38s, while early model Spitfires had aileron reversal due to wing twist (solved on later models by stiffening the wing). The P38 had a thick wing (for greater fuel capacity) which made its problem worse. According to Kelly Johnson the P38 ran into compressibility in the mach .68 to .7 range due to wing shape. Both the P51 and Spitfire had better wings for trans-sonic flight regimes.

On the topic of corrosion, I would imagine 60 years of exposure to salt water would have made all aluminum and steel parts unairworthy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.