billvon 3,098 #51 December 2, 2007 >This thread is about the USPA and its lack of doing the right thing, several times over. Well, "the right thing" as someone else defines it. If we all wanted the sport to grow no matter what, then Skyride might make sense; supporting businesses like them might be "the right thing" to do. However, many people (myself included) believe that their business ethics makes them unworthy of our support. It is now our job to make sure USPA knows that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #52 December 2, 2007 You want change from the USPA? Vote for it. Encourage others to vote for it. Keep those in that have a history of communicating with the members even if you don't like their views on all things. Get rid of those that have no communications with jumpers. I'll throw my name in the hat. Anyone wanna make change happen? VOTE.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #53 December 2, 2007 Quote However, many people (myself included) believe that their business ethics makes them unworthy of our support. It is now our job to make sure USPA knows that. The problem is that they DO know that. They even began to take the correct action.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #54 December 2, 2007 QuoteYou want change from the USPA? Vote for it. Encourage others to vote for it. Keep those in that have a history of communicating with the members even if you don't like their views on all things. Get rid of those that have no communications with jumpers. I'll throw my name in the hat. Anyone wanna make change happen? VOTE. Again - I agree!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #55 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting hereYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #56 December 2, 2007 Hell I will vote for you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #57 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting here Posting here is a start - it is "something" . . . it is more than I see most people doing. But to ansewr the rest of your question: Reading and learning how the process actually works. Information and understanding of the system is neccessary to start making changes as well. From then I will try to remember what it is like campaining for someone to make the changes. But first and foremost - it is about educating the members - and geting the facts of the issues out and at least available. You can't force anyone to read the info, but at least you can try and if you make it sound interesting enough, and important enough, people might listen and do the right thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #58 December 2, 2007 Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #59 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #60 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though. Fuck him...if he says no...we show the pictures!(You still got 'em right?) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #61 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting here Posting here is a start - it is "something" . . . It's more than some might imagine. It has won--and lost--at least a couple of BOD seats, and it is responsible for the existence of the online SIM. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #62 December 2, 2007 Where do you stand on the issues at hand like skyscam and sitting BOD members willing & knowingly violating the BSR's and MFG's requirements, and the LZ BSR fight. I would like to hear from you if you want my vote on these and any other fresh ideas you may have that you feel would help make our ORG. back to being about jumpers and not about lining the pockets of DZO's or turning a blind eye of GM DZ's because of who knows who. Also are you making a living in the sport, even PT. Would you be willing to give up taking any money from the sport to avoid conflict of interest as a BOD member?you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #63 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #64 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you. The gag is kinda hot.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #65 December 2, 2007 From the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #66 December 2, 2007 QuoteFrom the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this. No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? Ethical is ethical - if they bow down to those that are immoral and unethical this statement that you copied from the website is worthless. Guarding the integrity of the sport of skydiving is not a specific statement and if the USPA has stated that as a mission statement, then it needs to up hold that mantra in all facets. That specifically means that they need to stand up and not settle with a company that is unethical and has been since they started handing out fraudulent, harmful papers at the end of a road trying to take business away from SD Monroe.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #67 December 2, 2007 No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Conflict of interest is a seperate issue here. Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? In the realm of safety I say yes. Again, they could find themselves in a very bad position if they cross the line from protecting the safety of the membership to deciding if a member's business practices are ethical and legal. That's what Attornies General are for. I don't think this is an "old-boy" thing. Once the USPA says we don't like the way you do business and it has nothing to do with how safely that business operates they leave themselves open to all kinds of problems. My read on this is they were facing one hell of a lawsuit over this which they most likely would have lost. They also have a responsibility to the members to make sure the organization exists. Form the Constitution page: The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: To encourage unity among all persons interested in skydiving; to promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States, to sanction skydiving competitions; to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S., to promote and encourage the study and knowledge of skydiving among the membership and the public at large; to cooperate with all government agencies connected with aeronautics or aeronautical activities; to compile information regarding the science of skydiving and to edit, publish, and disseminate the same; to select and train the United States Parachute Team for world competition. It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #68 December 2, 2007 If the Group Member program didn't exist they would have never gotten themselves into that mess. And why is there a Group Member program you may ask? To force everyone to join the USPA so they can skydive at the Group Member DZs. The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johndh1 0 #69 December 2, 2007 One thing to remember is that if an independent cousel is looking at facts presented in a certain way, the fact that so many DZOs in the country - in every area of the country, disregarding actual state boundary - take the GCs, it could appear to give legitimacy to the operation of the plaintiffs in the claim. As has been said ad nauseam, if none of the DZOs took the certificates, it would look a whole lot better from the USPA side of the table. Thanks, GC-taking DZOs! You are a credit to the industry.Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #70 December 2, 2007 The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #71 December 2, 2007 Quote It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics. Then how can they justify a group membership? If they cover businesses as businesses, then they have a right to make a business decision to not cover those businesses that violate what is considered ethical. If they need proof - they need only to send out a postage paid card inserted, described, and with directions, in the next parachutist, that would allow a members to voice their opinion on this issue and return it as a kind of petition.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #72 December 2, 2007 I have two questions that I'm not sure I've seen answered anywhere. 1) Has it been officially announced or published somewhere that the USPA has cut a deal with the Skyride folks? I can't find anything on the USPA web site, nor did I see anything in this month's Parachutist (though the deadlines for that can be quite long so the news is often stale). Can someone point me to where that information has been confirmed? 2) How does one actually get on the ballot for National Director? I've read the governance manual and it says that there's a nominating committee made up of current board members. But how does one even get to the nominating committee? There's a clear set of steps and deadlines that a Regional Director candidate must follow, but the ND process seems to me to be much more fuzzily defined."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #73 December 2, 2007 Quote The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracy If you don't think so, let your membership expire, go get some third party liability insurance and go try to skydive at Group Member DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #74 December 2, 2007 It is much easier to run as a write in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #75 December 2, 2007 Quote It is much easier to run as a write in. That doesn't answer my question. WHY is it much easier to run as a write in? If I knew how one actually gets on the ballot I might understand why."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Amazon 7 #56 December 2, 2007 Hell I will vote for you... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #57 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting here Posting here is a start - it is "something" . . . it is more than I see most people doing. But to ansewr the rest of your question: Reading and learning how the process actually works. Information and understanding of the system is neccessary to start making changes as well. From then I will try to remember what it is like campaining for someone to make the changes. But first and foremost - it is about educating the members - and geting the facts of the issues out and at least available. You can't force anyone to read the info, but at least you can try and if you make it sound interesting enough, and important enough, people might listen and do the right thing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #58 December 2, 2007 Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #59 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #60 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though. Fuck him...if he says no...we show the pictures!(You still got 'em right?) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #61 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting here Posting here is a start - it is "something" . . . It's more than some might imagine. It has won--and lost--at least a couple of BOD seats, and it is responsible for the existence of the online SIM. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #62 December 2, 2007 Where do you stand on the issues at hand like skyscam and sitting BOD members willing & knowingly violating the BSR's and MFG's requirements, and the LZ BSR fight. I would like to hear from you if you want my vote on these and any other fresh ideas you may have that you feel would help make our ORG. back to being about jumpers and not about lining the pockets of DZO's or turning a blind eye of GM DZ's because of who knows who. Also are you making a living in the sport, even PT. Would you be willing to give up taking any money from the sport to avoid conflict of interest as a BOD member?you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #63 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #64 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you. The gag is kinda hot.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #65 December 2, 2007 From the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #66 December 2, 2007 QuoteFrom the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this. No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? Ethical is ethical - if they bow down to those that are immoral and unethical this statement that you copied from the website is worthless. Guarding the integrity of the sport of skydiving is not a specific statement and if the USPA has stated that as a mission statement, then it needs to up hold that mantra in all facets. That specifically means that they need to stand up and not settle with a company that is unethical and has been since they started handing out fraudulent, harmful papers at the end of a road trying to take business away from SD Monroe.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #67 December 2, 2007 No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Conflict of interest is a seperate issue here. Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? In the realm of safety I say yes. Again, they could find themselves in a very bad position if they cross the line from protecting the safety of the membership to deciding if a member's business practices are ethical and legal. That's what Attornies General are for. I don't think this is an "old-boy" thing. Once the USPA says we don't like the way you do business and it has nothing to do with how safely that business operates they leave themselves open to all kinds of problems. My read on this is they were facing one hell of a lawsuit over this which they most likely would have lost. They also have a responsibility to the members to make sure the organization exists. Form the Constitution page: The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: To encourage unity among all persons interested in skydiving; to promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States, to sanction skydiving competitions; to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S., to promote and encourage the study and knowledge of skydiving among the membership and the public at large; to cooperate with all government agencies connected with aeronautics or aeronautical activities; to compile information regarding the science of skydiving and to edit, publish, and disseminate the same; to select and train the United States Parachute Team for world competition. It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #68 December 2, 2007 If the Group Member program didn't exist they would have never gotten themselves into that mess. And why is there a Group Member program you may ask? To force everyone to join the USPA so they can skydive at the Group Member DZs. The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johndh1 0 #69 December 2, 2007 One thing to remember is that if an independent cousel is looking at facts presented in a certain way, the fact that so many DZOs in the country - in every area of the country, disregarding actual state boundary - take the GCs, it could appear to give legitimacy to the operation of the plaintiffs in the claim. As has been said ad nauseam, if none of the DZOs took the certificates, it would look a whole lot better from the USPA side of the table. Thanks, GC-taking DZOs! You are a credit to the industry.Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #70 December 2, 2007 The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #71 December 2, 2007 Quote It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics. Then how can they justify a group membership? If they cover businesses as businesses, then they have a right to make a business decision to not cover those businesses that violate what is considered ethical. If they need proof - they need only to send out a postage paid card inserted, described, and with directions, in the next parachutist, that would allow a members to voice their opinion on this issue and return it as a kind of petition.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #72 December 2, 2007 I have two questions that I'm not sure I've seen answered anywhere. 1) Has it been officially announced or published somewhere that the USPA has cut a deal with the Skyride folks? I can't find anything on the USPA web site, nor did I see anything in this month's Parachutist (though the deadlines for that can be quite long so the news is often stale). Can someone point me to where that information has been confirmed? 2) How does one actually get on the ballot for National Director? I've read the governance manual and it says that there's a nominating committee made up of current board members. But how does one even get to the nominating committee? There's a clear set of steps and deadlines that a Regional Director candidate must follow, but the ND process seems to me to be much more fuzzily defined."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #73 December 2, 2007 Quote The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracy If you don't think so, let your membership expire, go get some third party liability insurance and go try to skydive at Group Member DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #74 December 2, 2007 It is much easier to run as a write in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #75 December 2, 2007 Quote It is much easier to run as a write in. That doesn't answer my question. WHY is it much easier to run as a write in? If I knew how one actually gets on the ballot I might understand why."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
airtwardo 7 #58 December 2, 2007 Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #59 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #60 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Hell I will vote for you... Ya know who would be a good candidate for the chief saint and bottle washer: Peter. He's smart, well spoken and connected, tons of energy and hasn't been around LONG enough to be mired by the good ole boy thing...& doesn't make his living skydiving. I say we write in Peter! I might suggest asking Peter if he would accept - it would be funny top get someone elected that didn't want it though. Fuck him...if he says no...we show the pictures!(You still got 'em right?) ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #61 December 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI agree with you Bill, more participation is fundamental in change. . So what are YOU actively doing at a loca level to participate in the process of change at a national level Other than posting here Posting here is a start - it is "something" . . . It's more than some might imagine. It has won--and lost--at least a couple of BOD seats, and it is responsible for the existence of the online SIM. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stratostar 5 #62 December 2, 2007 Where do you stand on the issues at hand like skyscam and sitting BOD members willing & knowingly violating the BSR's and MFG's requirements, and the LZ BSR fight. I would like to hear from you if you want my vote on these and any other fresh ideas you may have that you feel would help make our ORG. back to being about jumpers and not about lining the pockets of DZO's or turning a blind eye of GM DZ's because of who knows who. Also are you making a living in the sport, even PT. Would you be willing to give up taking any money from the sport to avoid conflict of interest as a BOD member?you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #63 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #64 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you. The gag is kinda hot.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #65 December 2, 2007 From the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #66 December 2, 2007 QuoteFrom the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this. No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? Ethical is ethical - if they bow down to those that are immoral and unethical this statement that you copied from the website is worthless. Guarding the integrity of the sport of skydiving is not a specific statement and if the USPA has stated that as a mission statement, then it needs to up hold that mantra in all facets. That specifically means that they need to stand up and not settle with a company that is unethical and has been since they started handing out fraudulent, harmful papers at the end of a road trying to take business away from SD Monroe.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #67 December 2, 2007 No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Conflict of interest is a seperate issue here. Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? In the realm of safety I say yes. Again, they could find themselves in a very bad position if they cross the line from protecting the safety of the membership to deciding if a member's business practices are ethical and legal. That's what Attornies General are for. I don't think this is an "old-boy" thing. Once the USPA says we don't like the way you do business and it has nothing to do with how safely that business operates they leave themselves open to all kinds of problems. My read on this is they were facing one hell of a lawsuit over this which they most likely would have lost. They also have a responsibility to the members to make sure the organization exists. Form the Constitution page: The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: To encourage unity among all persons interested in skydiving; to promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States, to sanction skydiving competitions; to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S., to promote and encourage the study and knowledge of skydiving among the membership and the public at large; to cooperate with all government agencies connected with aeronautics or aeronautical activities; to compile information regarding the science of skydiving and to edit, publish, and disseminate the same; to select and train the United States Parachute Team for world competition. It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #68 December 2, 2007 If the Group Member program didn't exist they would have never gotten themselves into that mess. And why is there a Group Member program you may ask? To force everyone to join the USPA so they can skydive at the Group Member DZs. The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johndh1 0 #69 December 2, 2007 One thing to remember is that if an independent cousel is looking at facts presented in a certain way, the fact that so many DZOs in the country - in every area of the country, disregarding actual state boundary - take the GCs, it could appear to give legitimacy to the operation of the plaintiffs in the claim. As has been said ad nauseam, if none of the DZOs took the certificates, it would look a whole lot better from the USPA side of the table. Thanks, GC-taking DZOs! You are a credit to the industry.Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #70 December 2, 2007 The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 226 #71 December 2, 2007 Quote It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics. Then how can they justify a group membership? If they cover businesses as businesses, then they have a right to make a business decision to not cover those businesses that violate what is considered ethical. If they need proof - they need only to send out a postage paid card inserted, described, and with directions, in the next parachutist, that would allow a members to voice their opinion on this issue and return it as a kind of petition.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #72 December 2, 2007 I have two questions that I'm not sure I've seen answered anywhere. 1) Has it been officially announced or published somewhere that the USPA has cut a deal with the Skyride folks? I can't find anything on the USPA web site, nor did I see anything in this month's Parachutist (though the deadlines for that can be quite long so the news is often stale). Can someone point me to where that information has been confirmed? 2) How does one actually get on the ballot for National Director? I've read the governance manual and it says that there's a nominating committee made up of current board members. But how does one even get to the nominating committee? There's a clear set of steps and deadlines that a Regional Director candidate must follow, but the ND process seems to me to be much more fuzzily defined."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #73 December 2, 2007 Quote The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracy If you don't think so, let your membership expire, go get some third party liability insurance and go try to skydive at Group Member DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CSpenceFLY 1 #74 December 2, 2007 It is much easier to run as a write in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWFlyer 2 #75 December 2, 2007 Quote It is much easier to run as a write in. That doesn't answer my question. WHY is it much easier to run as a write in? If I knew how one actually gets on the ballot I might understand why."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 3 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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stratostar 5 #62 December 2, 2007 Where do you stand on the issues at hand like skyscam and sitting BOD members willing & knowingly violating the BSR's and MFG's requirements, and the LZ BSR fight. I would like to hear from you if you want my vote on these and any other fresh ideas you may have that you feel would help make our ORG. back to being about jumpers and not about lining the pockets of DZO's or turning a blind eye of GM DZ's because of who knows who. Also are you making a living in the sport, even PT. Would you be willing to give up taking any money from the sport to avoid conflict of interest as a BOD member?you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #64 December 2, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Nope. The original thread was deleted, so if the OP wants to they can reply. I know the OP pretty well. I added an avatar to my profile. Now y'all know what I look like. . Jan, I love you. The gag is kinda hot.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #65 December 2, 2007 From the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #66 December 2, 2007 QuoteFrom the USAP website http://www.uspa.org/about/index.htm Among the USPA’s primary objectives is to guard the integrity of the sport of skydiving by demanding that USPA members uphold the basic ethical principles outlined in the USPA Constitution and other policies. However, within these parameters and in accordance with state and federal law, USPA members are free to conduct business as they choose. Consistent with its policies and procedures, the USPA does not—and will not—seek to regulate the business activities of its members. My take on this is the threat of a Restraint of Trade lawsuit or something similar...I'm not completely up to date on the history here. I have to believe some attorney rightly stated that the USPA is not responsible for the legality of the business practices of it's members. To think otherwise would be folly and place the organization is a pretty precarious postion. I have no problem with this. No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? Ethical is ethical - if they bow down to those that are immoral and unethical this statement that you copied from the website is worthless. Guarding the integrity of the sport of skydiving is not a specific statement and if the USPA has stated that as a mission statement, then it needs to up hold that mantra in all facets. That specifically means that they need to stand up and not settle with a company that is unethical and has been since they started handing out fraudulent, harmful papers at the end of a road trying to take business away from SD Monroe.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #67 December 2, 2007 No - but when the BOD has members directly receiving funds from the business in question, do you not think that there is a conflict of interest? Conflict of interest is a seperate issue here. Does the USPA not have the right to suspend membership to those that they feel have or may harm their reputation or the reputations of those that they are trying to protect? In the realm of safety I say yes. Again, they could find themselves in a very bad position if they cross the line from protecting the safety of the membership to deciding if a member's business practices are ethical and legal. That's what Attornies General are for. I don't think this is an "old-boy" thing. Once the USPA says we don't like the way you do business and it has nothing to do with how safely that business operates they leave themselves open to all kinds of problems. My read on this is they were facing one hell of a lawsuit over this which they most likely would have lost. They also have a responsibility to the members to make sure the organization exists. Form the Constitution page: The purposes for which USPA is formed are as follows: To encourage unity among all persons interested in skydiving; to promote safety in all skydiving activities in the United States, to sanction skydiving competitions; to document officially all national and world skydiving records set by citizens of the U.S., to promote and encourage the study and knowledge of skydiving among the membership and the public at large; to cooperate with all government agencies connected with aeronautics or aeronautical activities; to compile information regarding the science of skydiving and to edit, publish, and disseminate the same; to select and train the United States Parachute Team for world competition. It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #68 December 2, 2007 If the Group Member program didn't exist they would have never gotten themselves into that mess. And why is there a Group Member program you may ask? To force everyone to join the USPA so they can skydive at the Group Member DZs. The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johndh1 0 #69 December 2, 2007 One thing to remember is that if an independent cousel is looking at facts presented in a certain way, the fact that so many DZOs in the country - in every area of the country, disregarding actual state boundary - take the GCs, it could appear to give legitimacy to the operation of the plaintiffs in the claim. As has been said ad nauseam, if none of the DZOs took the certificates, it would look a whole lot better from the USPA side of the table. Thanks, GC-taking DZOs! You are a credit to the industry.Roll Tide Roll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #70 December 2, 2007 The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #71 December 2, 2007 Quote It doesn't say anything about regulating the business practices of it's members in regard to ethics. Then how can they justify a group membership? If they cover businesses as businesses, then they have a right to make a business decision to not cover those businesses that violate what is considered ethical. If they need proof - they need only to send out a postage paid card inserted, described, and with directions, in the next parachutist, that would allow a members to voice their opinion on this issue and return it as a kind of petition.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #72 December 2, 2007 I have two questions that I'm not sure I've seen answered anywhere. 1) Has it been officially announced or published somewhere that the USPA has cut a deal with the Skyride folks? I can't find anything on the USPA web site, nor did I see anything in this month's Parachutist (though the deadlines for that can be quite long so the news is often stale). Can someone point me to where that information has been confirmed? 2) How does one actually get on the ballot for National Director? I've read the governance manual and it says that there's a nominating committee made up of current board members. But how does one even get to the nominating committee? There's a clear set of steps and deadlines that a Regional Director candidate must follow, but the ND process seems to me to be much more fuzzily defined."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #73 December 2, 2007 Quote The Group Member program was born from the greed of DZOs sitting on the BOD That's one possibility but I really don't think it's the reason why. It's not always a conspiracy If you don't think so, let your membership expire, go get some third party liability insurance and go try to skydive at Group Member DZs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #74 December 2, 2007 It is much easier to run as a write in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #75 December 2, 2007 Quote It is much easier to run as a write in. That doesn't answer my question. WHY is it much easier to run as a write in? If I knew how one actually gets on the ballot I might understand why."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
