Harness life

[SWATcop 0]

I was wondering if there is a general rule on how many years a harness is good for? You don't often hear of a harness failure but I know they have happened.

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[BIGUN 1,486]

That's a tough one. Depends on jumps and care. I tend to pay closer attention to articulated harnesses.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[riggerrob 643]

"Harness life" is a tough question to answer. It depends upon how many times it was dragged across asphalt, left laying in the sun, etc.
I have 40 yearold harnesses - in the back of my loft that are still strong, on the other hand, I have done major repairs (i.e. replace leg straps) on harnesses only a few months old.
Yes, articulated (ringed) harneses do wear out more quickly. Mind you, Rigging Innovations had been building ringed harnesses for four years, before a member of Arizona Airspeed returned the first frayed Flexon.

[councilman24 37]

Also, it's often subjective. There are some types of damage that are obviously bad and need replacement. But some, while we know weaken the webbing, are common and don't neccessarily merit repair or replacement. Go to Sunpath's web site and look at the maintainance bulleting on harness damage for examples.

The hardest is the just plain tired harness. All the stiches are there, the is no obviously severe damage, but the container is faded, the material is limp, and there is some fraying from velcro or leg strap hardware. When do you retire one of these? Usually they get retired because they get outdated. i.e. not free fly friendly But were geting some gear now that is modern enough but getting tired. This becomes a very
subjective call. I know some of the junk I jumped and friends jumped in the 80's and early 90's I'd never jump now. But we just never blew up harnesses. Of course we also has dacron line and F-111 type canopies that didn't have as high a shock load.

The other problem is that we can't test a harnesses strength conveniently in the field. And if we could we'd have to pull it to destruction. So, it becomes a joint decision between you, your rigger, and the manufacturer if you want to ask them. They will likely err on the conservative side, not always bad. There have been several cases of rigs I wouldn't pack that other riggers would. We won't all agree. It comes down to would I jump it (maybe even if I wouldn't do it for a customer) and do I want my name on it as airworthy.

Again, some damage is obvious, serious, and needs to be fixed before jumping again.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[SWATcop 0]

Quote

Also, it's often subjective. There are some types of damage that are obviously bad and need replacement. But some, while we know weaken the webbing, are common and don't neccessarily merit repair or replacement. Go to Sunpath's web site and look at the maintainance bulleting on harness damage for examples.

The hardest is the just plain tired harness. All the stiches are there, the is no obviously severe damage, but the container is faded, the material is limp, and there is some fraying from velcro or leg strap hardware. When do you retire one of these? Usually they get retired because they get outdated. i.e. not free fly friendly But were geting some gear now that is modern enough but getting tired. This becomes a very
subjective call. I know some of the junk I jumped and friends jumped in the 80's and early 90's I'd never jump now. But we just never blew up harnesses. Of course we also has dacron line and F-111 type canopies that didn't have as high a shock load.

The other problem is that we can't test a harnesses strength conveniently in the field. And if we could we'd have to pull it to destruction. So, it becomes a joint decision between you, your rigger, and the manufacturer if you want to ask them. They will likely err on the conservative side, not always bad. There have been several cases of rigs I wouldn't pack that other riggers would. We won't all agree. It comes down to would I jump it (maybe even if I wouldn't do it for a customer) and do I want my name on it as airworthy.

Again, some damage is obvious, serious, and needs to be fixed before jumping again.

These are some good points. I see some used gear in the classified section that is 15-20 years old and its anyone's guess what that gears history really is. I can afford to buy all new gear but there was a time when I couldn't and bought used gear. I guess a rigger would catch any visual signs of wear but what about gear that is just old and possibly been stored improperly. Thanks for the input.

Kevin

Muff Brother #4041
Team Dirty Sanchez #467

[fcajump 164]

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I see some used gear in the classified section that is 15-20 years old and its anyone's guess what that gears history really is.

I have heard that the UK and/or EU put a life limit of 15 years on gear. That coencided with a lot of 15-20 y.o. gear showing up on EBay... Some good, some not so. I would be cautious about buying gear that someone else knew they would not be using themselves after x number of years.

Additionally, I know of at least one aerobatics team that has their gear condemed every year or so because they simply leave it in their open-cockpit planes exposed to the sun during the season. So age alone is not a good measure.

Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[rigger_john 0]

Quote

I have heard that the UK and/or EU put a life limit of 15 years on gear. That coencided with a lot of 15-20 y.o. gear showing up on EBay... Some good, some not so. I would be cautious about buying gear that someone else knew they would not be using themselves after x number of years.

Jim

Hi Jim, the total life limit was removed in the UK about 10 years ago, it was 15 years but it only applied to reserves not H/Cs. A Rigger friend of mine in Germany told me there was a limit of 15 years on gear in Germany, but a "master" rigger could extend the life.

_________________________________________

Nullius in Verba

[Flying_Penguin 0]

The US Governmet teaches Marine Corps Riggers that anything older than Seven years should be tossed - no matter what.
In Sport Jumping I have see many jumpers be successful with rigs that must have been older than that. My student gear, I remember like any first-true-love and that rig was older than me.

It is your life, have a rigger or Two inspect and sign off on anything you trust you life with. If you are every unsure, error on the side of caution.
Blue Ones
Penguin

[riggerrob 643]

25-30 year old "closet queen" harnesses are probably still airworthy, but they have fallen out of fashion.

[nicknitro71 0]

I got a 1981 Warp III harness that put out at least 800 different students and has at least 5000 jumps if not many, many more.

I use it for unpacked BASE jumps...it's still going strong and I will tear my body apart before it breaks.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[docjohn 0]

My rigger won't accept a reserve for repack if the harness/container (not the reserve canopy) is 20 years old or older. I think this is an arbitrary decision on his part.

Is this becoming a trend? Anyone else heard of this?





.

Doc
http://www.manifestmaster.com/video

[fcajump 164]

Quote

My rigger won't accept a reserve for repack if the harness/container (not the reserve canopy) is 20 years old or older. I think this is an arbitrary decision on his part.

Is this becoming a trend? Anyone else heard of this?
.

Arbitrary, maybe but it is becoming more common (to my experience).

My personal $.02... (as a rigger)

Are there GREAT rigs over 20 years... yes
Are there CRAP rigs under 2 years... yes

However, with the changes in gear and the multiple (conflicting) responses I have gotten from gear manufacturers and fabric manufacturer on ACTUAL known aging of materials the answer for how old is too old is... "we don't know."

Even worse (for me) is that while PIA and PD have published a (controversial) standard for testing fabric strength, there is little I can do in the field to prove that a harness (including the 5/6-cord thread) will take another 4month/6months/1year of your hard openings.

So I look at a few things in considering what I will service...

What condition is it in (that I can be sure of and test)?

What is the history of this rig and its design?

Due to its age (and age of the design) are the issues that the owner, user, packer, rigger (me), and/or those performing the pin-checks are not going to have a clue how to operate/verify?

What does the Mfg say about it? (Butler and National don't service their own gear past 20 years, and GQ has disavowed continued use of their old designs for example)

Finally, since many other riggers and several mfgs won't service old gear, and several fabric manufacturers have stated that their fabric aging is not precisely known, what would I say to justify putting something old back into service if it fails? (Even if we say the failure might not actually be age related, but that could be raised as a point of negligence since so many experts seem to have that position.)

So, for me, I have drawn a few bottom lines:

1. Generally I do not work on rigs/components over 20 years.
2. For a closet queen, if the mfg will test and recertify the gear, I will discuss extending that to 25 years (rare).
3. When advising someone on buying used gear or planning for depreciation, I tell them to price based on a 20 year limit. (more applicable to PEP's than skydiving gear where wear/tear are more of an issue for limits)

My single biggest item of concern: harness. It tends to have the most sun exposure, MUST not fail, and I can test it the least (to actual use levels)... especially on PEP's where I can't say that it was taken to terminal just last week and looks just like it did...

Thats my thoughts,
Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

I think this is an arbitrary decision on his part.

But as the rigger it is still his decision. And one made with your safety in mind.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals