WL - how light is too light?

[kirrz 0]

I've been doing research on gear options & I would like some advice...

Background info - I am just under 60 kgs (130ish lbs) and 5'5" tall. I have 10 jumps so far.. most on a 260, 1 on a 240. I really couldn't tell the difference between the canopies at all. My landings are pretty bad.. I've stood up 1 so far. I guess I'm afraid that I am going to break my leg if I try to stand up the landing and the flare is wrong(a fear I know is totally in my head since I am being radio'd and TA'd down)- working on it.
When under the canopy, I often find that it's a little hard for me to pull the toggles all the way down- especially using my left hand - I assumed it's cos I'm weak.

I have no interest in swooping or flying fast canopies and actually really like just flying slowly under the canopy and hanging out in the air. I'm also on a uni student budget which means I'd like to have gear by the time I'm licensed so I don't have to pay for rentals - but I don't have all that much money to spend on this gear.

The solution I came up with was - why not get an old reserve that has the bridle attachment point and jump it as a main? I've found a really good deal on a Raven II (218 sq. ft.) which fits this description and it works out so much cheaper than buying a main.

I have gathered that 0.8 - 1.0 is a good wingloading for a first canopy. However, if I do get this, my wingloading will be 0.71 - 0.73 (gear weight 25-30lbs). Is this too light? Will I have problems? And if so, what kind of problems?

The container I've got is a Dolphin D3. According to the manufacturer's specs it is sized for a 190 main. I assume the Raven II will fit fine since it's a 7 cell and packs smaller. Is this wrong?

Also, from reading old threads in the women's forum I have found that a few people had the same problems as I do with regards to having trouble pulling the toggles. The conclusion there was that the reason was that the canopy was too big for the jumper. Is this accurate?

I'd also like to add that I figure an added bonus with regards to my jumping a large 7-cell is that I will have the adequate canopy training incase I decide to venture into BASE in the future (it's somewhere at the back of my mind).

I would like to hear all your comments, suggestions or flames... Thanks in advance!

[TheDonMan 0]

Owning a big canopy has it's plus and minuses. If you in a windy area a big canopy can by bad..

A .8 is good for a start.

What do your instructors say about your landings. There must be some reason you aren't standing them up?

Why do you want a 7 cell vs a 9cell? just wondering. is it because you're already thing about base?

The world is full of willing people, some willing to work, the rest willing to let them.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I am loaded anywhere between a .675 to a .85 and do much better under the .85. I say


First and foremost talk to your instructor

Second read Billvons articles on Canopys and downsizing

Third read Brian Germains stuff on flight

Fourth talk to your instructor about what you read

Five listen to your instructor

Good luck...

ohh and once I downsized to the 170s to the 190s I noticed a marked improvement in my flare.... I had better timing but also I was able to pull the toggles all the way down...which is something I could not do with the 260... to the 200s....

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[TheDonMan 0]

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I am loaded anywhere between a .675 to a .85 and do much better under the .85. I say


First and foremost talk to your instructor

Second read Billvons articles on Canopys and downsizing

Third read Brian Germains stuff on flight

Fourth talk to your instructor about what you read

Five listen to your instructor

Good luck...

ohh and once I downsized to the 170s to the 190s I noticed a marked improvement in my flare.... I had better timing but also I was able to pull the toggles all the way down...which is something I could not do with the 260... to the 200s....

Six listen to lisa.

Personaly i jump a 78 and i love it hehehehe

The world is full of willing people, some willing to work, the rest willing to let them.

[kirrz 0]

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What do your instructors say about your landings. There must be some reason you aren't standing them up?

Well on 2-3 of the jumps it was because it was hard for the TA to signal the flare due to the wind so I was flared too early and had to PLR. I haven't really been told much about my landings.. only that I should be ready to PLR on every jump and that my PLR skills need much improvement.

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Why do you want a 7 cell vs a 9cell? just wondering. is it because you're already thing about base?

7 cell - aren't all reserves 7 cell? I guess I am totally swayed towards jumping a reserve as a main b/c I can't afford the few extra 100 bucks to get a main. A few months ago I was bent on skydiving for base but ever since I actually started jumping, I've thrown that thought away. If it happens, it happens.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

I could land a 78























once

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[TheDonMan 0]

Read some of the articles on DZ.com. al ot of good info..
Although there is nothing really wrong about jumping at reserve a main ZP will last longer in the long run. Look at the Classifieds for pricing of mains. Something with just under 1000 jumps should be fine... my $.02

A seven cell will sink and thats why base jumper use them to load in tight areas. a 9 cell like to glide better.

As for those landing........ where are you looking at about 30 ft above the ground??

The world is full of willing people, some willing to work, the rest willing to let them.

[bob.dino 1]

Student mains (large F111, 7-cell) and sport mains (smaller, ZP, 7- or 9-cell) fly completely differently.

You're also a way away from buying your own gear. When you finish AFF, start asking around. Ask the instructors who've worked with you their opinions. You won't be jumping your own gear until you've completed most of your B-rels.

I seriously doubt any instructor will recommend you get a 200sqft+ F111 canopy as a main. In fact I'd hazard a guess that many would explicitly recommend against it. I'll buy you dinner if you're told to find anything other than a 170 such as a Sabre, Sabre2, Safire2, etc .

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Student mains (large F111, 7-cell) and sport mains (smaller, ZP, 7- or 9-cell) fly completely differently.

Most modern student rigs are 9-cell hibrid, like PD-Navigator.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well on 2-3 of the jumps it was because it was hard for the TA to signal the flare due to the wind so I was flared too early and had to PLR. I haven't really been told much about my landings.. only that I should be ready to PLR on every jump and that my PLR skills need much improvement.

Seems a bit early to worry about too light. If you're a bit nervous now on final approach and judging for yourself on flare height, a faster canopy won't help here.

It's still early - worry about finishing the initial learning process and then about finding gear. And get more answers about landing - that's the second most important skill (after deploying) in the sport.

[kirrz 0]

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As for those landing........ where are you looking at about 30 ft above the ground??

At the TA who is signalling the flare with batons.. and secretly worrying cos the ground is coming at me really fast.
--

Thanks for all the replies so far.. I have another question in addition to all the original ones.
If the container is a D3 sized for a 190 main and 170 reserve (and have been told by Mike Fury that it is ok to go one size either way) - would I be able to comfortably pack the Raven II as a reserve if I get a 170 main?
Does it work so that the main and reserve compartments complement each other in size (ie. if you go smaller in one, you can go bigger in the other?)?

Edited to add - yes I will definitely speak to my instructors.. I am overseas at the moment so am just trying to build my understanding via the forum instead.

[popsjumper 2]

Best advice given so far: Talk to your instructors. If they disagree with each other, get them to confer and resolve.

I would suggest for your main a Triathlon or Spectre 190 (WL ~0.8). Maybe a 170-175 (~0.9)
Very docile, good with turbulence, easy very-forgiving flare. Great all-around canopies.

You will want a main and a reserve that are very similar in size and flight characteristics. To exaggerate for demo purposes only, surely you can see the potential problem of normally flying a big main and then having to go to a comparatively tiny reserve in an emergency.

I'm sure your instructors will discuss the issue of using a reserve as a main. I'm not going there. I have been advised against it by my instructors but I see very experienced jumpers here giving tentative OKs.

Blue Skies Kirrz

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Travman 6]

I remember my first few jumps. The TA is guiding me down whilst I am thinking wow I am getting low. Why hasn't he told me to flare yet??? The ground is big!!! Where is the flare????

And then the batons would go down and I would flare and most of the time had nice soft landings.

Michael Vaughn recently held a seminar at Picton after jumping on Billvon's downsizing chart. During that he talked about "sight pictures". As you build experience you will store more "sight pictures" about how high you are, how fast you are going and when you need to flare. Have a chat to Vaughny sometime at Picton. He is always enthusiastic about talking to people about canopy flight and an excellent teacher.

I went through AFF on the same gear you are on, I was on 240's the whole time though. Then I went from the 240 to my Sabre 170. What a nervous jump. My first pack job (would it open) and my first jump on a sport canopy. The opening was great and the landing was even better, on target and a nice soft touch down.