Saves on pilot rigs

[mjosparky 4]

Hi Kris,

The attachment is out of the Owners Manual for a Strong Para-Cushion. It is about as good as it gets for a pilots rig.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

No (legal) need for a parachute in a homebuilt - unless you'll be doing aerobatics.

Dave

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

No (legal) need for a parachute in a homebuilt - unless you'll be doing aerobatics.

Dave

You are right.

I thought a homebuilt was under experimental and experimental needed to carry a parachute. But I can't find anything in the FAR's about it.

It almost reads like if all people aboard are crew members you can do aerobatics without wearing parachutes.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or
(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.
(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or
(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by—
(i) A certificated flight instructor; or
(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with §61.67 of this chapter

In any case this is all I can fine about wearing a parachute.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[pilotdave 0]

Interesting... never noticed that before. Did some looking and according to one guy, you're right:

http://www.landings.com/_landings/Forums/as/as-aerobatics.html (scroll down near the bottom to "Do I have to wear a parachute when I do aerobatics?")

Parachutes aren't required for any required crew memeber when doing aerobatics.

Dave

[nitrochute 2]

here is a question that inquiring minds really want to know. how many of us riggers have been handsomely rewarded(i.e a tip or a case of beer or something) when that pack job they did was actually used sucessfully.

[JerryBaumchen 1,446]

My vote = not me, ever.

Jerry

[riggerrob 643]

PEPs are required when test flying, doing aerobatics or flying in formation.

Test flying is rare these days - considering how few new airplanes are designed every year - however, I have repacked PEPs for Scaled Composites and the National Test Pilot School as well as for NASA.

Strangely the FARs don't require pilots flying aerobatics solo to wear parachutes, but they are required of passengers while doing aerobatics.

Competitive glider pilots are required to wear parachutes because competitions often find them flying in formation - er. jostling for position - in the same thermal. Yes, there are rules of the road that define who has precedence in thermals, but all is fair in love and racing.

A lot of warbird pilots also wear parachutes.
A: Their seats were designed to be hopelessly uncomfortable without parachutes.
B: Most warbirds are 50-plus years old and notoriously difficult to repair, ergo not terribly reliable. If their engines fail, the chances of surviving a power off landing are slim. The faster the warbird (i.e. jets) the smaller the chance of surviving.
C: Most warbirds are capable of aerobatics.
D. Many warbird pilots like to fly in formation with similar airplanes. Groups like the North American Trainer Association - representing AT-6, SNJ and T-28 owners - give seminars on formation flying and insist that participants wear parachutes.

[mattmais 0]

didnt the pilot at Loveland Co in the 80 live after the midair w/ a commuter that killed a bunch?? Dave something was the pilots name. Got tossed from the plane then opened.

[mark 107]

Quote

PEPs are required when test flying, doing aerobatics or flying in formation.

Test flying is rare these days - considering how few new airplanes are designed every year - however, I have repacked PEPs for Scaled Composites and the National Test Pilot School as well as for NASA.

Strangely the FARs don't require pilots flying aerobatics solo to wear parachutes, but they are required of passengers while doing aerobatics.

Competitive glider pilots are required to wear parachutes because competitions often find them flying in formation - er. jostling for position - in the same thermal.

I don't know of an FAR requiring a PEP for test flights, nor for formation flights.

As for solo aerobatics without a parachute, I think the pilot is an occupant and required to wear a parachute per FAR 91.307. When an FAR distinguishes between crew and passengers (e.g. oxygen rules), it does so explicitly. "Occupant" would be a generic term applying to both. For example, the FAA uses "occupant" to refer to a person operating a (single-seat) ultralight.

Finally, regarding PEPs for competition glider pilots, usually the competition rules (SSA rules?) require them for exactly the reason you state, but I do not recall reading it as an FAR requirement. It would have to be a very strong and very small diameter thermal to require a bank in excess of 60 degrees.

Mark

[pilotdave 0]

Quote

As for solo aerobatics without a parachute, I think the pilot is an occupant and required to wear a parachute per FAR 91.307.

I always thought so, but looked it up because of a comment in another thread today. Looks like (though I haven't heard anything official) its true that required crew members don't require parachutes for aerobatics unless a passenger is on board.

"Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon."

Dave

[mark 107]

Quote

Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember)...

Hmmm. I have been hasty, focussed on the first clause ("unless each occupant") instead of on the qualifier ("other than a crewmember"). I think you and riggerrob are right.

Mark

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

PEPs are required when test flying, doing aerobatics or flying in formation.

The way I read it the only time a PEP is required is when doing aerobatics with a passenger who is not a crewmember or when required by an STC

91.307 Parachutes and parachuting.

(c) Unless each occupant of the aircraft is wearing an approved parachute, no pilot of a civil aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) may execute any intentional maneuver that exceeds—

(1) A bank of 60 degrees relative to the horizon; or

(2) A nose-up or nose-down attitude of 30 degrees relative to the horizon.

(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(2) Spins and other flight maneuvers required by the regulations for any certificate or rating when given by—

(i) A certificated flight instructor; or

(ii) An airline transport pilot instructing in accordance with §61.67 of this chapter.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, that is a loop-hole in the FARs.
Theoretically, if two licensed pilots want to go do aerobatics together - in the same airplane - they do not need parachutes.
Legal, yes.
Smart, no.

[riggerrob 643]

Pilot Emergency Parachutes only vaguely resemble skydiving rigs.
They share chest anfd leg straps and all have ripcords on the left side, but that is about all they share with skydiving rigs.
PEPs have more in common with seat cushions.
PEPS are available in: back, seat, chest, chair, lap, headrest, etc. configurations to match a variety of sizes of pilots to a variety of cockpits.
Frequently, PEP manufacturers are asked to design specialized PEPs to compensate for "differences" between intended pilots and current owners.
For example. I had to rebuild the same harness - twice - to adapt it from its original size (Yugoslavian fighter pilot built like a jockey) to fit the current owner, a well-nourished Texan.
Hee!
Hee!

[pilotdave 0]

Well, no. They both need to be required crew members, not just pilots. So unless it's a large plane, chances are you're stuck wearing parachutes unless you're solo.

Dave

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Well, no. They both need to be required crew members, not just pilots. So unless it's a large plane, chances are you're stuck wearing parachutes unless you're solo.

Dave

Unless one is an instructor and the other is testing.


(d) Paragraph (c) of this section does not apply to—

(1) Flight tests for pilot certification or rating; or

(i) A certificated flight instructor;

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals