New Rigs vs. Used Rigs For Newbies

[bryjobe 0]

I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear. I have heard from several people to buy used gear. Is this because of the price? Is there a rig selecting for dummies out there? I appeal to new since I am a modern guy and don't like all the tie-die clown outfits~no offense to those that do!

[skybytch 273]

You may find some of the articles here helpful.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear. I have heard from several people to buy used gear. Is this because of the price?

Price. I got a screaming deal (the container maker had a 40% off deal) on my last new rig at $3600 without the Cypres. I paid $1700 for my first used rig and $700 for the last one without a main (adding that could be done for under $1000 total).

Delivery time. You don't want to wait six months for a rig. You don't want to wait in line for rental gear. At some DZs you don't want to pay for rental gear that long - if I was able to jump their rental gear as much as I did my first used rig, after three months of jumping at my home DZ I would have come out ahead financially if I threw it in the trash.

What you need now. Many people would say that what's safe now won't be much fun in a few hundred jumps. What's fun and safe in a few hundred jumps is not safe now. At some point you'll find a size that will keep you happy for a thousand jumps or more. Until you get there, buying new may mean taking big losses on each rig you buy and sell or letting it sit on the shelf a long time until you find a buyer.

Ease of packing. You need to know more tricks and be better at packing to get a new ZP main into your container, especially if you don't want to cuss at it.

[GravityGirl 0]

There is nothing wrong with buying new gear right out of the starting gate as long as you don't mind the following:

Initial depreciation hit.

Your brand new rig may take a few tumbles in the trial and error phase of learning.

Brand new parachutes are more challenging to pack. Everything is a bit stiff and new parachute fabric is slippery as hell.

You'll have to plan your choices more carefully to accomodate your first downsize of main parachutes without having to get everything brand new again.

On the plus side:

Your gear will be a custom fit.

It will be modern with no parts worn out yet.

You can pick your own colors and design.

One more thing to consider is a combination. Custom rig, new reserve and AAD with a used main. Or some other combination. The above makes the best sense in most cases.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[nathaniel 0]

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Is there a rig selecting for dummies out there?

They like to be called "instructors" around these parts...

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[actor2k 0]

DrewEckhardt could not have said it better! He is exactly right. I only have 300 jumps now so it is easy for me to remember what it was like when I was having your same dilemma. To make it simple, if you're a wealthy individual who doesn't mind paying a lot of money (perhaps because you have a lot of it) on something that you'll MOST LIKELY replace in a couple of hundred jumps (and believe me, you'll have a few hundred in no time ) then GO FOR IT! Skydiving IS a fashionable sport and, hey, you GOTTA look good!

In the other side, if your budget is like most of ours, then you should definitely get a USED rig so that you learn which canopy you like best and until you find a size that you feel the most comfortable with.

Safe Jumps and Blue Skies!

[mattjw916 2]

Having an instructor rating doesn't mean you necessarily know anything about gear or keep up-to-date on what's going on in the gear world. I'd trust my rigger or local gear dealers more than instructors with regard to type of canopy, container, and which companies have had issues over the years, etc. When you are dealing with recommended wingloadings and such then I'd go to an instructor for recommendations.

I definately don't trust the opinions of people who are sponsored and just try to pimp their brand-of-the-year.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear. I have heard from several people to buy used gear. Is this because of the price? Is there a rig selecting for dummies out there? I appeal to new since I am a modern guy and don't like all the tie-die clown outfits~no offense to those that do!

People making these threads should give their size.

Availability of used gear is a lot better for those who want a 175 than those who want a 210 or 230. Quality difference is huge too. Some of those "big boy" rigs are a bit on the ancient side.

I bought a new container (from GravityGirl, actually) and reserve, and found a used main and AAD. I had enough trouble with weird fitting or uncomfortable rigs that having that part sized right was nice to have.

[bryjobe 0]

Do you think it would be wiser to buy lower end but NEW Dolphin or Wings or etc., etc. than to rent from the DZ? My local DZ's charge $20 for rental. I know I will make at least 50 jumps this spring and that equals $1,000. I have two other brothers that are my size that are currently non jumpers so I could keep the rig in the family!

[bryjobe 0]

I am 5'10-1/2" and weight 200. I am not fat, just athletic. I may loose 15lb from the Winter foods and less activity. I have jumped 200-260 rentals on the dz and loved the feel and response of the 210. If I bought new is it best to get the Container from one vendor and the Main and Reserve from another or find an outfitter that does it all?

[wmw999 2,587]

If you want to buy new, you're best off trying on rigs that are reasonably close to your size so that you can see how they feel; then try bending and stretching in all directions. That way you're more likely to end up with one that works in the long run. A new rig should be a "long run" kind of investment, and deserves some study.

As far as whom to buy it from, well, packages are OK, but a gear dealer on your dropzone or close to you might be a good choice -- then you'll have someone to bat for you if the measurements end up being a little off or something.

Me, I jump used gear. I have bought new in the (distant) past, but, well, am happy with what I have, and with the money that it leaves me for jumping.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

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I am 5'10-1/2" and weight 200. I am not fat, just athletic. I may loose 15lb from the Winter foods and less activity. I have jumped 200-260 rentals on the dz and loved the feel and response of the 210. If I bought new is it best to get the Container from one vendor and the Main and Reserve from another or find an outfitter that does it all?

hey, it's not a value judgement. I'm a bit fat and athletic, and still harbor notions that I'll run more RSN. Until then, the 210 is it for me.

Regardless of why your weight/skill point to the 210 as the right canopy, there are fewer rigs to be found (or they sell without even needing to advertize). I found a lot of almost right rigs that would have required me to push the wingloading too far, on older canopy designs like the Falcon. It makes sense - lighter beginners can use 175s, or more experienced bigger folks can. Just be happy you're not using the 230 for rentals - often it tops out at 210.

If you're going all new, pick a single vendor. Know that the sizing of your container is based on the parachutes going inside, so might as well get as much of it figured out at the same time. I guessed 9 cell 210 (sabre) for the main, ended up using a 7 cell triathlon 220 initially.

[drdiesel 0]

I only have 24 jumps and just ordered a new container. I will be getting a new reserve and a used main. The container I ordered should be able to accomadate a one size smaller main, should I choose to do so. I am not worried about downsizing to quick. I got it because I wanted something that would fit, unlike alot of rental and used gear I was looking at. The price was only a $200 more than what a few of the used rigs I was looking at. Hope that helps.

---------------------
Twin Falls BASE Co.
208-423-8080
www.twinfallsbase.com

[milkybar 0]

If you are a fairly average size person (height/weight): Then good used gear is the way to go.
As mentioned before, unless you like waiting for your new rig, & deprciation, & packing that slippery mofo.
Contact all the Gear stores local and national [Pro-Shop/Aerostore/Paragear etc] you'd be surprised the number of complete rigs that have low jump numbers. Once you've got a couple of hundred jumps under your belt you'll have a greater understanding of what you want from your rig/canopy.
Find a rigger who you trust, they will be able to guide you in your gear selection. Talk to your instructors regards canopy selections.
Fashionable??? Matching colours????
Spend your money on jumping and coaching, nothing looks better than being smooth in the air or under canopy.
Substance comes from within.

Buying inexpensive new? If you can't find something to fit [you're fairly average] and there's a good possibilty to keep it in the family, sure. Look around the DZ area and see which inexpensive rigs are popular. Weird, but your region can determine the popularity of rigs.
You're going to have to do your homework, talk to jumpers/gear stores/riggers: Build a consensus and make an informed desicion.
Overwhelmed???? I've found the gear stores informative and helpful, they want a long term relationship with the customer.

Just looked at your profile, check out the Ranch 8 and 9th April, if you graduated in 2005 [no matter which DZ] free seminars (gear/canopies/ etc) discount jumps and other goodies. it should be on their events page by the end of the week.

[fcajump 164]

Quote

I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear. I have heard from several people to buy used gear. Is this because of the price? Is there a rig selecting for dummies out there? I appeal to new since I am a modern guy and don't like all the tie-die clown outfits~no offense to those that do!

Also

Quote

I am 5'10-1/2" and weight 200. I am not fat, just athletic. I may loose 15lb from the Winter foods and less activity. I have jumped 200-260 rentals on the dz and loved the feel and response of the 210. If I bought new is it best to get the Container from one vendor and the Main and Reserve from another or find an outfitter that does it all?

In addition to the good advice already made, let me add... I myself am 5'9" and 200+, and while I could stand to drop a few this spring, I am also an athletic build. I asked that same set of questions when I bought my first rig at ~35 jumps.

I chose to buy new and would recommend the same.

1. I needed to KNOW where the gear had been and what condition it was in. I did not want trouble with someone else's cast-aside with that little experience (no offence).

2. Custom harness size. For the larger built, especially in the torso and shoulders (like me), most rigs that you can get into are still not right. Remember most folks that buy used gear focus on the container volumes and take the size harness that happens to be attached. BOTH the container size AND harness size are a factor for guys built like us. Jumping a rig with a too small yoke or main lift web hurts after a while... my second rig was used... great rig but the main lift web was too short for me...

3. Canopy size. DO NOT buy the canopy you will want later. Buy the canopy you can safely handle when you've already pushed the wind/condition limits and get an out landing. This means the reserve too.

4. Container size. I would recommend here, buying a rig that is correct for the canopies, but is a little tight for the main. Here you are giving yourself the flexibility to move down to a smaller main later (assuming you don't need to move up because you took #3 seriously).

Good luck and have fun!
Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Joellercoaster 6]

Something I just realised.

Being a bigger, oddly-shaped person, I was initially annoyed because I pretty much had to buy a new container first up. I got a new main because new mains in my size sell, as someone said, without even advertising them and I thought, hey, I might as well get one that matches my other stuff.

Something else mitigates it a little though, as I've just realised: the bigger you are, the more performance you'll get from a downsize: 'x' square feet down for someone weighing 150 pounds is a 33% bigger increase in wingloading for someone who weighs 200 pounds. So, in theory, even though we have to buy a new container to start, we should expect to downsize less frequently.

So my one-downsize-potential container choice should last me longer, even though I had to pay more for it.

Or am I just trying desperately to make myself feel better?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[fcajump 164]

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Something I just realised.
Or am I just trying desperately to make myself feel better?

As a larger/broader guy myself, I tell you...
"You are... but that doesn't mean you aren't right."
(actually the math works against us, but ignore that for now...)

The only concern, is this... remember that while you can scale down your canopy in the same rig, there is such a thing as "too small" for the container. If you downsize your canopy, make sure the container is still properly filled and the closing loop tension is tight.

(Maybe Booth has pre-written guidelines on "too loose" that he could insert here...?)

Jim

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[mattyblast 0]

A question for those of you who did go ahead and take the plunge and get new goodies: you had had the chance to jump enough canopies to pretty much know that what you were choosing was the best for you, right?

What I mean is, did you get to borrow somebody's Sabre 210 (for example) and jump it a handful of times, then discuss with other jumpers, coaches, etc., how it felt, then reach a conclusion that it was a good choice for you for the long haul?

I expect to face this decision later on this summer, so I'm enjoying what everyone has said in the thread so far.

"DOOR!!!"

[krkeenan 0]

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I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear.

Buy decent used gear and spend more $ on jumps to become a better skydiver. Gear doesn't make you better, experience does.

Kevin

======================
Seasons don't fear the Reaper,
nor do the Wind, the Sun, or the Rain...

[RMURRAY 1]

Quote

There is nothing wrong with buying new gear right out of the starting gate as long as you don't mind the following:

Initial depreciation hit.

Your brand new rig may take a few tumbles in the trial and error phase of learning.

Brand new parachutes are more challenging to pack. Everything is a bit stiff and new parachute fabric is slippery as hell.

You'll have to plan your choices more carefully to accomodate your first downsize of main parachutes without having to get everything brand new again.

On the plus side:

Your gear will be a custom fit.

It will be modern with no parts worn out yet.

You can pick your own colors and design.

One more thing to consider is a combination. Custom rig, new reserve and AAD with a used main. Or some other combination. The above makes the best sense in most cases.

for used gear you can try it on before buying. New gear does not always fit perfect even though it was custom made. Of course if you can afford new, go for it!

rm

[RMURRAY 1]

Quote

Quote

I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear.

Buy decent used gear and spend more $ on jumps to become a better skydiver. Gear doesn't make you better, experience does.

Kevin

exactly! and include lots of windtunnel training early on if possible.

rm

[GravityGirl 0]

Joel,

With your current gear selection, you'll be able to safely accomodate a downsize. In my experience with customers in and around your size, your first and second canopy sizes will be suitable for a few hundred jumps.

How many jumps do you do a year?

Feel better?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[tbrown 26]

Availability of used gear is a lot better for those who want a 175 than those who want a 210 or 230. Quality difference is huge too. Some of those "big boy" rigs are a bit on the ancient side.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Hey, I feel fine already
I love my Pilot 188 and can't see myself getting bored with it in a hurry. I'm only aiming to do 100 or so jumps a year, once the season gets going, so there's no great pressure. This container will last me a couple of years and hopefully more.

In answer to mattyblast: I didn't test all the canopies available. I jumped a Sabre2 and Spectre, bought a Pilot... but next time I'm shopping I want to have tried Lotus, Safire2, Silhouette and maybe Firebolt as well - then I'll probably buy another Pilot anyway

GG, are you going to be offering demos at WFFC this year?

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[tso-d_chris 0]

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I have 35 jumps and am looking for gear. I have heard from several people to buy used gear. Is this because of the price? Is there a rig selecting for dummies out there? I appeal to new since I am a modern guy and don't like all the tie-die clown outfits~no offense to those that do!

Gear suitable for a first rig holds its resale value than any other size rig in this sport. As the gear gets smaller, it gets harder to resale. In other words, you are better off buying your early equipment new, and purchasing used stuff for subsequent rigs.

The "depreciation" of large canopies immediately upon customer purchase is typically nothing more than the discount from MSRP that most dealers offer on new equipment.

A new harness/container has a tremendous advantage over used: a custom fit. The chances are very low that you will be able to find a used container that fits as well as a new one.

A common problem with used containers is that they have to have the proper harness size, the proper main container size, and the proper reserve container size for you. If any one of these is not sized appropriately for you, it is a bad choice, regardless of price. If all three of those sizes match, you still have to consider color. Not everybody likes neon pink and camouflage!

If you are able to find appropriate used gear, there is nothing wrong with buying used. However, don't let people's advice scare you away from purchasing new gear.

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