Cheaters

[guppie01 0]

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also believe that once someone cheats once, they'll do it again at some point. It's just a matter of the right circumstances for them to justify their disgusting behavior. People typically equate cheating to sex, I believe it's deception - it just so happens that in 99% of 'conventional' relationships that sex is how it manifests itself.

I also believe that it's a pretty good indication on what they'll do to their regular friends in the right circumstances too. If they will do it to someone they are supposed to care about, why would they treat those who aren't as close to them any differently.

That general presumption and attitude is not entirely true!

I was married for 10 years, I cheated. I made a horrible choice, I don't condone nor do I approve of my actions. I am not the same person, nor do I have any desire to do it again. Most people grow, and mature, and learn from their mistakes. People can change.... Give them a lil credit.

g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[Conundrum 1]

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"swinger" is a bit of an overloaded word and tends to carry the wrong connotations -- e.g. rampant promiscuity, casual sex without meaning or emotion. Multiple sexual relationships within the context of something more tangible and emotional is not "swinging".

Main Entry: 1swing·er
Pronunciation: 'swi[ng]-&r
Function: noun
: one that swings : as a : a person who is lively, exciting, and up-to-date b : one who engages freely in sex

"Swinger" sounds pretty accurate to me.

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Does your use of quotes mean you do not consider it a real relationship?

no

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So why aren't you okay with it?

Personally, I just want to know that that dick is coming back clean and happy. If it comes back with a story and some extra skills, so much the better.

It's just not my thing. It never has and never will be. Sex is something very intimate to me, and not something I just hand out like candy. If I love someone, I don't want them out screwing other people. To me, it takes all the love and intimacy and meaning out of sex. Even if I have a casual, non-serious relationship with someone, sharing is not on my agenda. Again, it's just not my thing... at all. Besides that, I'd worry about diseases and infections my parter might get from someone else. In a monogamous relationship where both people are clean and have been tested, you don't have to worry about all the shit that comes along with sleeping around.

If that's for you, then great. I'm happy for you. It's not for me and will never be for me.

It has nothing to do with insecurity and/or jealousy.

[Ether 0]

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Sex is something very intimate to me, and not something I just hand out like candy.

Me too. While I am not averse to the occasional casual encounter, it is not by any means a normal part of my life. It is far more common for me to be with someone that I am close to emotionally, or at least good friends with.

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If I love someone, I don't want them out screwing other people. To me, it takes all the love and intimacy and meaning out of sex.

This is the part that baffles me. Your use of the word "screw" seems to indicate a level of contempt for sex, as if in this context it is only a very casual thing.

A partner of mine, spending time with someone else that is special to him/her, in no way diminishes what we have together. I remember the old childhood song "love is something / when you give it away / you end up having more" -- isn't sex just an extension of love?

PS. I don't mean to criticize your choices in any way; I'm only trying to reach understanding of your perspective. I find differing viewpoints of sex, relationship and intimacy to be quite fascinating and insightful into the human condition.

Looking for newbie rig, all components...

[Conundrum 1]

Well great! You can enjoy sleeping with multiple people and I'll enjoy sleeping with just my husband.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Most people grow, and mature, and learn from their mistakes. People can change.... Give them a lil credit.

I'd like to believe you're right, but absolutely nothing I've experienced has lead me to believe otherwise. If someone had asked you during the happiest point in your 10 year relationship if you'd have cheated I'd venture a guess to say you'd have answered "No"?

Those kind of choices that we make, that require that kind of deception, usually change us for the worse forever. Kinda like your virginity, just can't ever really get it back.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Conundrum 1]

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PS. I don't mean to criticize your choices in any way; I'm only trying to reach understanding of your perspective. I find differing viewpoints of sex, relationship and intimacy to be quite fascinating and insightful into the human condition.

Totallly fine. I don't take offense to much of anything.

[peregrinerose 0]

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I'd like to believe you're right, but absolutely nothing I've experienced has lead me to believe otherwise. If someone had asked you during the happiest point in your 10 year relationship if you'd have cheated I'd venture a guess to say you'd have answered "No"?

I'm with Guppie. I was with a guy for 10 years (married 4 of those years, dating the previous 6) and basically cheated (we were separated at the time, but not talking divorce yet). I'd never do it again and it makes me want to throw up I'm so sick at myself for having done that.

If you asked me at the happiest time of my previous marriage if I would have cheated... of course I'd say no. And then I did it. But now I have the experience of knowing what it did to me, to my ex, and to the person that I cheated with and there is no chance I would ever do it again, no matter how bad the marriage is... bad marriage would end first, and then move on, not move on while still married.

This happened 5 years ago, and I still haven't even come close to forgiving myself... chances are I neve will.

Some people play with fire once and learn it's stupid and never do it again. Other's don't learn. Assess each person and situation as the individual that they are, don't make mass generalizations.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Some people play with fire once and learn it's stupid and never do it again. Other's don't learn. Assess each person and situation as the individual that they are, don't make mass generalizations

Just speaking from experience. Like I said, I'd like to believe I'm wrong. So far I haven't been.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[mamajumps 0]

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I'd like to believe you're right, but absolutely nothing I've experienced has lead me to believe otherwise. If someone had asked you during the happiest point in your 10 year relationship if you'd have cheated I'd venture a guess to say you'd have answered "No"?

I'm with Guppie. I was with a guy for 10 years (married 4 of those years, dating the previous 6) and basically cheated (we were separated at the time, but not talking divorce yet). I'd never do it again and it makes me want to throw up I'm so sick at myself for having done that.

If you asked me at the happiest time of my previous marriage if I would have cheated... of course I'd say no. And then I did it. But now I have the experience of knowing what it did to me, to my ex, and to the person that I cheated with and there is no chance I would ever do it again, no matter how bad the marriage is... bad marriage would end first, and then move on, not move on while still married.

This happened 5 years ago, and I still haven't even come close to forgiving myself... chances are I neve will.

Some people play with fire once and learn it's stupid and never do it again. Other's don't learn. Assess each person and situation as the individual that they are, don't make mass generalizations.

Im with Peregrinerose & guppie, I cheated with the sole purpose of showing him how bad he hurt me, 2 years later I still feel like maggot puke and havent forgiven myself. Under no circumstances will I ever cheat ever again... PERIOD. Prior to my failure I was so proud of the fact that no other man had touched my body in 7 years, that was everything to me and I ruined it.

[peregrinerose 0]

Feeling like maggot puke...good analogy. And very very true I'm glad I'm not alone with this, but at the same time wish that no one else had to deal with the stones that other people can throw.

I'm not proud of my mistakes, but I'm willing to learn from them. I am willing to write about them because I hope even one person will avoid making the same ones.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[guppie01 0]

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Feeling like maggot puke...good analogy. And very very true I'm glad I'm not alone with this, but at the same time wish that no one else had to deal with the stones that other people can throw.

I'm not proud of my mistakes, but I'm willing to learn from them. I am willing to write about them because I hope even one person will avoid making the same ones.

I don't think people even come close to understanding that we beat ourselves up enough.

g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[peregrinerose 0]

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I don't think people even come close to understanding that we beat ourselves up enough.

Very true.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ianmdrennan 2]

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I don't think people even come close to understanding that we beat ourselves up enough.

I'm sorry, but speaking as somebody who's (now ex) wife cheated on, I doubt your emotional beating was anything like those your choices had inflicted upon them.

edit: I see a few responses about how the Cheater felt afterwards.....how about some thought to how the person who was betrayed felt?

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[peregrinerose 0]

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I'm sorry, but speaking as somebody who's (now ex) wife cheated on, I doubt your emotional beating was anything like those your choices had inflicted upon them.

I've been cheated on too. It was easier to deal with that pain... it was his fault, it's over, I healed and moved on. As the cheatee you have friends there to lean on for support too.

However, as the cheater, you can't ever get away from yourself, you have no one else to blame but yourself, there is no healing from it. You have no friends when you cheat... far the opposite.... other people throw stones at you, you beat yourself up, it never ends.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[guppie01 0]

Jennifer did point that out in her post... I can't speak for her, but the guilt we carry is because of the pain we caused. It's called remorse.

I'm sorry you were cheated on, and hurt, and your skepticism in women. I can't completely comprehend your pain, but I understand the distrust - I deal with it on a daily basis.

g

"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?"
Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU
OMG, is she okay?

[livendive 8]

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I've been cheated on too. It was easier to deal with that pain... it was his fault, it's over, I healed and moved on.

I bet it's easier for you to truly believe that you'll never cheat on someone again than to believe that you'll never be cheated on again, thus the latter sort of mistrust is longer lasting. My (ex)wife cheated on me over 18 years ago, and I can easily count the number of women I've trusted since on one hand. Was it the fault of those other women? No. But pain that severe can trigger some very unfortunate avoidance instincts.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[peregrinerose 0]

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I bet it's easier for you to truly believe that you'll never cheat on someone again than to believe that you'll never be cheated on again, thus the latter sort of mistrust is longer lasting. My (ex)wife cheated on me over 18 years ago, and I can easily count the number of women I've trusted since on one hand. Was it the fault of those other women? No. But pain that severe can trigger some very unfortunate avoidance instincts.

It's absolutely easier to believe I'll never put anyone else (or myself) through cheating again, but I still find myself wondering if my husband would ever cheat on me. Even though intellectually, I know he wouldn't.

It's a control thing... I can control my own choices and actions... I can't control what other people may chose to do to me. I've always had trust issues though, even before being cheated on.

I am sorry for what you've been through and wish that there was something I could say that would make things better for you. My husband says it best, I think... he reminds me often that he's "not other guys". When you are in a relationship, try to keep in the back of your head that your SO is "not other women." It helps. Not a lot, but it does help.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Some people play with fire once and learn it's stupid and never do it again. Other's don't learn. Assess each person and situation as the individual that they are, don't make mass generalizations.

You can only extend that trust and get burnt so many times before it has a negative impact on you. What makes it worse is when you find someone you thought was special and only ends up being like the rest. Despite all effort to heal those wounds, sometimes it just doesn't happen. For me it's routine to automatically distance myself from someone new that gets close to me...I don't put any thought into it, I just do it. I'm not sure there is a woman out there that can change my mind on this anymore. I'm no where near perfect and I've screwed up my fair share (but never cheated)....so maybe its a combination of not trusting myself (or not trusting who I choose) and others.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Conundrum 1]

Being cheated on (especiallly multiple times), can leave deep scars on a person. It's very hard to ever trust anyone completely again.

[Broke 0]

Without giving too many deatails it tore my world assunder.

Divot your source for all things Hillbilly.
Anvil Brother 84
SCR 14192

[MyTwoCents 0]

I thought this thread had died, I guess I should have kept an eye on it. Alas, I'll try to catch up.

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Hey if you're down with being a swinger and fucking multiple people while being in a "relationship", that's cool by me; but calling people who aren't ok with their partners dick being in another vagina the day before, insecure and jealous? Pfft.

I don't consider myself a swinger. There is a broad spectrum between committed monogamy and being promiscuous. What if three people decide to form a triad and engage in threesomes, but are exclusive to the three of them? What if they live together and raise children. Is that swinging?

Polyamory is not about mad monkey sex with every stranger you see. It's about acknowledging that perhaps there can be more than one person you love. Ironically, most of us already do. We have friends we love. We have one or more partners we love. We have children, parents, family we love. Etcetera. Yet somehow, sex receives a unique and special place on the plane of love.

What is so special about sex? Have you never had deeply intimate philosophical discussions with people other than your significant other? Can't those be more meaningful than sex? Are you okay with your partner forbidding you to have philosophical conversation with other people?

I find your use of quotes around the word relationship a tad condescending. I don't think it is fair to judge somebody's relationships based only on the sexual component therein. Once again I'll repeat a question; isn't there more to a relationship than sex?

Lastly, nowhere did I say that people who'd rather not have their partner's genitals touch third party genitals are by definition insecure or jealous.

However, I will argue that insecurity and jealousy is a main motivator for monogamy. Further down this thread you have brought up fear of STDs as an additional reason and I completely agree. STDs form a serious risk that needs to be managed.

Another reason you brought up was intimacy. Would that imply that somehow the exclusive access to your partner's genitals strengthens the connection with him or her? That sounds rather like ownership to me.

As somebody else in this thread has pointed out, love is not a zero sum game, and it doesn't come in limited amounts. If you have two children and add a third; do you now love the first two a little less?

[sunshine 2]

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Without giving too many deatails it tore my world assunder.

It'll be ok. *hug*

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[Conundrum 1]

I already explained my point of view on the subject. If multiple parters are for you, then fabulous. Enjoy. It's just not my thing.

[MyTwoCents 0]

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I already explained my point of view on the subject. If multiple parters are for you, then fabulous. Enjoy. It's just not my thing.

Forgive me for dragging this out. Feel free to say stop, and then that'll be the end of it.

But I'm genuinely curious. As somebody for whom polyamory makes sense, the discussions with convinced monogamists is often a struggle. I think I can learn something from you here, since at least you allow different people to have different viewpoints.

If I may summarize, you've brought up two reasons for sexual monogamy. The first one being STDs, which I completely agree is an issue that needs serious consideration. The second one being that somehow your partner engaging in sexual activity elsewhere would diminish the intimacy and meaning of your own sexual activity with him or her.

It's this second one I'd love to see you elaborate on.

When your partner engages in philosophical banter with a third party, does it reduce the meaning and intimacy of your own conversations with him? I won't argue that sex and philosophy are entirely the same, but they do share a level of intimacy and exposure.

I just can't help but understand why (concern for STDs aside) I could be anything but happy for my partner if he or she had a great time doing any possible thing, as long as my partner continues to respect the commitments that I have earned through past investments (per common sense, and vice versa).

I should also mention in response to what I quote above; multiple partners aren't "my thing". It's not that I pick a random number N larger than one and insist that I must have at least that many partners. In fact, quite the opposite happens; Most of my life I have been in a relationship with one person or single. It's a mere acknowledgment of the fact that when two people engage in a loving committed relationship, it may very well be that either or both run into another person that also adds value to either or both our universes. Rather than avoiding that, we embrace it across all axes. From friendship, to sex, to love, or any combination thereof.

[Conundrum 1]

Well, I guess I just think that when two people love eachother (not talking about random hook-ups) that they should only sleep with eachother. Personally, it would probably literally make me throw up if I knew my s/o had slept with someone else while being with me. I could never be ok with that. Let's rule out religion while we're at it, I am not religious, so that's not where my viewpoint comes from.

It's not that I would be jealous that they had a better time with them than they do with me, or even insecurity or anything like that.

Take my current situation for example. I have been with my s/o for almost 3 years. We are engaged to be married on June 1st of this year. We had a baby boy in November. Now... I see hot guys here and there, and I think it's human nature to look and think whatever you'd like. For me the actual desire to have sex with someone else is not there, at all. I only want to sleep with my fiance, because I love him and I think we give something special to eachother when we have sex. If I were to have sex with other people, I think it takes away that "special-ness". Why? I don't know, I guess it's kind of like this: If you have something really cool that you have a bunch of but you choose to only give some of it to one person and no one else, but other people want it, that person you gave it to feels important, special, and loved. I feel that way about sex. I don't want to hand it out to multiple people. And that's not to say that I haven't thought about sex with other people, but I don't have a desire to actually do it.

I'm not really sure how else to explain it. It probably sounds totally cheesy but I don't care.