sartre 0 #126 February 26, 2008 What I don't understand is, who is going to sue about being moderated and why? Are you implying that you have another option of sueing if you don't like the content of the forum or actions taken by the mods? So, if something is deleted or locked, you believe that someone would actually have a court case? Why would anyone care that much? And would they be seeking monetary compensation for pain and suffering? Has anyone ever done this? Why, why why, would anyone CARE enough to take it to that extent? And what is your motivation for continuing to bring it up? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #127 February 26, 2008 LOL - this is so funny - the responses are not only predictable - they were predicted. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,089 #128 February 26, 2008 >the responses are not only predictable - they were predicted. For some reason all this reminds me of: Mister Andy Kaufman's gone wrestling yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Andy, did you hear about this one? Tell me, are you locked in the punch? Hey Andy, are you goofing on Elvis? Hey baby, are we losing touch? If you believed they put a man on the moon, man on the moon If you believe there's nothing up my sleeve, then nothing is cool . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #129 February 26, 2008 QuoteWhat I don't understand is, who is going to sue about being moderated and why? Exactly the point, you don't know, i don't know, the moderators don't know. QuoteAre you implying that you have another option of sueing if you don't like the content of the forum or actions taken by the mods? So, if something is deleted or locked, you believe that someone would actually have a court case? Basic rule of law, anyone can sue for anything at anytime. The courts being what the are, no one can accurately predict the outcome. This is especially true in the area of community web sites where the customers help create the content that drives the traffic that create the value that advertisers pay for -- because there is a lack of case law. The moderators continue to push the false dichotomy that the choices are a) accept it or b) move on; this is not and has never been true. There are additional options such as bringing a lawsuit. QuoteWhy would anyone care that much? And would they be seeking monetary compensation for pain and suffering? Who know, who cares; not relevant. The fact that it could happen is the relevant issue. QuoteHas anyone ever done this? Not exactly, and that's again part of the point; a lack of case law implies a high degree of unpredictability in the courts. This unpredictability is further magnified by cross-jurisdictional issues, new internet laws, and globalization. QuoteWhy, why why, would anyone CARE enough to take it to that extent? Because they can? QuoteAnd what is your motivation for continuing to bring it up? For the most part, I'm just replying. Discounting the interlaced humor this thread was dead over 12 hours before a moderator posted in reply to me. In a more general sense, thought experiments are useful devices in thought, analysis, and investigation of how things work. If a thought experiment makes a moderator realize that (*) he/she is carrying personal risk and liability is her/his actions; maybe the moderation as a whole can be less memetic, less heavy handed, and serve as a positive example on how to better the community and not fracture it. Of course, maybe i've been smoking weed this afternoon and none of this is possible; maybe the community is destined to be it's own worst enemy. As the Zen Master said, "We'll see". (*) however small note; my previous disclaimer still appliesIt wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #130 February 26, 2008 QuoteBasic rule of law, anyone can sue for anything at anytime. True. But I don't think that sangiro should let his site get overrun with threads about feces (or whatever similar subject) just because he's afraid of a potential lawsuit over deleting some of those threads. Of the forums I use, this site has less moderation than any of them. I certainly don't think of the moderation as being "heavy-handed" here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #131 February 26, 2008 Quote Of the forums I use, this site has less moderation than any of them. I certainly don't think of the moderation as being "heavy-handed" here. Of the forums I use, this is the most moderated, so I guess the views of what 'heavy handed" might be is subjective. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #132 February 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteBasic rule of law, anyone can sue for anything at anytime. True. But I don't think that sangiro should let his site get overrun with threads about feces (or whatever similar subject) just because he's afraid of a potential lawsuit over deleting some of those threads. I'm not suggesting that; I have merely presented some intriguing thought experiments. The individual moderators are bearing the risk. Anyone choosing to initiate a civil action would be remiss to only initiate against the site and not also include the individual mods. QuoteOf the forums I use, this site has less moderation than any of them. I certainly don't think of the moderation as being "heavy-handed" here. The mere fact that there are continued threads about "why my post was deleted" or "please explain" indicate that a degree of heavy handedness is occurring. The increasing number of public complaints indicate a tip-of-the iceberg effect. One of the patterns of how a group can become its own worst enemy is a religious veneration. The moderator memes are presented with a religious-like veneration and in that presentation are de facto heavy handed and part of the problem, not part of a solution.It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #133 February 26, 2008 Wanna threaten me with a lawsuit for my moderation of this forum? Good luck with that.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #134 February 26, 2008 QuoteBecause they can? My grandfather used to say: "With a little force you can snap your finger off in your ass." Just because you can do something doesn't mean it’s a good idea nor that it will always serve you well. You continue to use this site and forum subject to our TOS.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #135 February 26, 2008 did you miss my disclaimer: Disclaimer: To prevent the predictable false dichotomy responses and straw man arguments; I am not complaining about the site, I am not saying I am going to sue, I am not unhappy with the site (and even if I was the "two choices" of accept it or find another site are not the only two choices available). I am not looking for porn on dz.com. I am not even actually complaining about the moderation ...It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #136 February 26, 2008 QuoteOf the forums I use, this is the most moderated, so I guess the views of what 'heavy handed" might be is subjective. Really? Can you name some of the other forums you use here? I would love check them out.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #137 February 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteOf the forums I use, this is the most moderated, so I guess the views of what 'heavy handed" might be is subjective. Really? Can you name some of the other forums you use here? I would love check them out. I wasn't talking about other forums here. Maybe I should have said "message boards". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #138 February 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteBecause they can? My grandfather used to say: "With a little force you can snap your finger off in your ass." Just because you can do something doesn't mean it’s a good idea nor that it will always serve you well. Did you miss my disclaimer: Disclaimer: To prevent the predictable false dichotomy responses and straw man arguments; I am not complaining about the site, I am not saying I am going to sue, I am not unhappy with the site (and even if I was the "two choices" of accept it or find another site are not the only two choices available). I am not looking for porn on dz.com. I am not even actually complaining about the moderation ... QuoteYou continue to use this site and forum subject to our TOS. Maybe; the correct answer is that it depends on prevailing jurisdictional laws, both codified and case law. Do you know what jurisdiction I am in, do you know the case law around community businesses? From an earlier thought experiment, are you sure?It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #139 February 26, 2008 QuoteI wasn't talking about other forums here. Maybe I should have said "message boards". That's what I understood. So can you name some other message boards you use? I'd love to see what their rules look like and maybe chat to their admins to find out how they do it.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #140 February 26, 2008 It's time to be careful with matches, straw man are approaching It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #141 February 26, 2008 QuoteQuoteI wasn't talking about other forums here. Maybe I should have said "message boards". That's what I understood. So can you name some other message boards you use? I'd love to see what their rules look like and maybe chat to their admins to find out how they do it. I'd prefer not to name them actually. We don't really have any rules over there, it's basically anything goes, enter and post at your own risk. Find out how they do it? I'm not understanding what you mean. Do what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #142 February 26, 2008 Quote It's time to be careful with matches, straw man are approaching With all due respect, the only straw man in this thread is your hypothetical question posts about how moderators can lose their retirement funds and the pennies they’ve set aside to send their kids to college. Maybe you can put some meat on the bones of that creature and give us an example or two in case law where that has happened to volunteer moderators? Or are you saying we're breaking new ground here and until this forum, nobody has ever thought of sueing a moderator?Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #143 February 26, 2008 QuoteI'd prefer not to name them actually. Of course not.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #144 February 26, 2008 Quote Of course not. Why does it matter what other boards I post at? Is it a matter of you not believing what I'm saying? I assure you I am not lying. And besides, the only reason I even mentioned the other boards was to validate why I think this board is heavily moderated, and it is, compared to what I'm used to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #145 February 26, 2008 Thought experiments are thought experiments; and useful in that they help understand environments and situations. Straw men are where someone intentionally misrepresents another persons statement, attacks the misrepresentation, and claims some sort of debate victory because of the attack on the misrepresentation. Since I've already been accused of hating on the site, threatening to sue, etc. I am, with all due respect, fully entitled to be wary of approaching strawmen.It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 26 #146 February 26, 2008 So no real-world examples to substantiate your posts then either? QuoteThought experiments are thought experiments; and useful in that they help understand environments and situations. So what did we learn? Is there money to be made in sueing a moderator?Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #147 February 26, 2008 We learned that heavy handed moderation is a largely untested area of law; there may be money to be made there may not be. The corollary is that there may be less-risky -- to both the site and the individual moderators -- methods of maintaing order; at the very least discontinuation of the heavy handed repetition of un-tested (legally) memes would be a step in the right direction. Anything that reduces friction between the elite privileged class and the masses (who generate the value) is a good thing.It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #148 February 26, 2008 I dunno about the suing moderators thing, but I have made posts that caused at least one lawyer to complain to Sangiro, even though what I said about a certain person was true. As a result, my thread was locked. So there is a good reason for moderation as needed."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeMcLean 0 #149 February 26, 2008 Quote Quote Of course not. Why does it matter what other boards I post at? Is it a matter of you not believing what I'm saying? I assure you I am not lying. And besides, the only reason I even mentioned the other boards was to validate why I think this board is heavily moderated, and it is, compared to what I'm used to. A cynic would say that by knowing your other message boards would open an avenue for Ad Hominem attacks. But that's only what a cynic would say It wouldn't hurt you to think like a fucking serial killer every once in a while - just for the sake of prevention Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #150 February 26, 2008 Quotebut I have made posts that caused at least one lawyer to complain to Sangiro Seriously? Wow. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
