TPirlot 0 #1 March 6, 2008 I have heard of a picture with a falcon diving head down with a skydiver, but I can't seem to find it. I am beginning to think it doesn't exist. Can anyone help me out and let me know where I might be able to find this pic and or a video of this. Thank you very much. Todd Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #2 March 6, 2008 It's definitely on one of the 90s Norm Kent videos. Probably either From Wings Came Flight or Willing To Fly. Air & Space Magazine has an article about it. No pictures, unfortunately, but it does list several other films that the footage might be found it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #3 March 6, 2008 It's on "Willing to Fly" from Norman Kent. http://www.normankent.com Norman also discusses the scene on the "Aerial Camera: What You NEED to Know" DVD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #4 March 6, 2008 It was also covered in Parachutist a few years back, along with a spectacular cover photo. Not so much the clarity of the photograph, but the awesome content made up for it. HERE'S a PHOTOGRAPH at the head of this web page. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #5 March 6, 2008 YouTube video from National Geographic on Frightful the Falcon and his skydiver owner. http://208.65.153.253/watch?v=j3mTPEuFcWk&feature=user ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #6 March 6, 2008 There's also one from about 06 called "The Falcon That Flew with Man". Includes lots of base jumps, including wingsuit jumps, and the whole point of the film is to fly relative with captive falcons. They had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaustik 3 #7 March 6, 2008 QuoteThey had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. How can any physical body out-accelerate it's means of propulsion??? That sounds infeasible. Were they using the "Jump to Conclusions" thing from Office Space?The future belongs to those of us still willing to get our hands dirty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #8 March 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteThey had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. How can any physical body out-accelerate it's means of propulsion??? That sounds infeasible. Were they using the "Jump to Conclusions" thing from Office Space?I would imagine that the birds are capable of generating forces (probably with skillful use of their wings) that when in conjunction with gravity would allow them to generate an accelleration greater then that of gravity alone. There's nothing inherently wrong with the physics of such a thing it's merely impressive for an animal to do it. Edited to add: Gravity is not a birds only means of acceleration...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hayfield 0 #9 March 6, 2008 I've seen a vid on either skydivingmovies.com or you tube where a falcon grabs onto the pilot chute and hangs on for a bit. Think it was norman kent who took it. Hope it didn't f-up his pc too bad!"Remember the First Commandment: Don't Fuck Up!" -Crusty Old Pete Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #10 March 6, 2008 http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=3591 Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaustik 3 #11 March 6, 2008 QuoteI would imagine that the birds are capable of generating forces (probably with skillful use of their wings) that when in conjunction with gravity would allow them to generate an accelleration greater then that of gravity alone. There's nothing inherently wrong with the physics of such a thing it's merely impressive for an animal to do it. Edited to add: Gravity is not a birds only means of acceleration... I am strictly talking about the birds ability to dive here. I can not see how the wings are anything other than air brakes in this situation. Even if the bird is using those wings to push against the air, they are still exposed and will create massive amounts of drag. I can not get the picture of a wingsuit pilot flying head down flapping his wings trying to go faster.The future belongs to those of us still willing to get our hands dirty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jazzthieve 0 #12 March 7, 2008 QuoteThey had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. I would think that's physically and technically impossible without any means of propulsion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #13 March 7, 2008 Quote I am strictly talking about the birds ability to dive here. I can not see how the wings are anything other than air brakes in this situation. Even if the bird is using those wings to push against the air, they are still exposed and will create massive amounts of drag. While in the midst of the dive the hawk probably doesn't have any acceleration (unless it changes direction) as it is probably at termal velocity for whatever configuration of a dive it is in (depending on the velocity it wants to go.) On the other hand at the start and finish of the dive it is accelerating and what the scientists are saying is that the accelerometers on the hawk measured the acceleration when the Hawk initiated the dive and that they were able to generate forces with their wings, probably in conjunction with gravitational acceleration, that exceded the acceleration of gravity alone. And frankly there is no comparision between a wingsuiter flapping his "wings" to the control a Hawk has of his/her wings at the onset of a dive or any other portion of their flight. A hawk is/would be capable of things that a wingsuiter can only dream of... but that's just my analysis of the situation... I could be way off and am perfectly happy to have someone correct my understanding of the physics... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #14 March 7, 2008 Quote Quote They had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. I would think that's physically and technically impossible without any means of propulsion. A bird has very articulate control surfaces and is able to generate forces, i.e. propulsion, by judicial control of air with it's wings. Otherwise birds wouldn't be capable of countering gravitional forces and accelerating off of the earth and into the sky... OK... thanks now I'm all jealous of birds ability to fly... Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #15 March 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteThey had accelerometers mounted on the birds and concluded they could actually 'out-accelerate' gravity. I would think that's physically and technically impossible without any means of propulsion. Without any means of propulsion it would be impossible for birds to take off. Lets all brainstorm here - what do birds have that they might use for propulsion...Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,595 #16 March 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteEdited to add: Gravity is not a birds only means of acceleration... I am strictly talking about the birds ability to dive here. I can not see how the wings are anything other than air brakes in this situation. Even if the bird is using those wings to push against the air, they are still exposed and will create massive amounts of drag. I can not get the picture of a wingsuit pilot flying head down flapping his wings trying to go faster. Picturing a wingsuit pilot in order to think about what birds can do is silly. They are much, much better at flying than we are. In "Falcon that flew with man" the truly stunning accelerations were coming as the birds began their dive from low airspeed. Once the Falcon is moving really fast then of course the wings are going to be retracted a lot more and being used for guidance, but in the early stages of the dive they can give a heck of a lot of extra push.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iamsam 0 #17 March 7, 2008 Quote I am strictly talking about the birds ability to dive here. I can not see how the wings are anything other than air brakes in this situation. Even if the bird is using those wings to push against the air, they are still exposed and will create massive amounts of drag. I can not get the picture of a wingsuit pilot flying head down flapping his wings trying to go faster. Have a look at a picture or footage of a peregrine in a dive. The wings are tucked in and become more like stabilisers, for want of a better word. It's obviously an incredibly aerodynamic shape considering their mass v speeds they achieve. I know you're talking abut diving ability, but I also don't know any wingsuit pilots who can acheive 120mph level flight by flapping their wings. Like Jakee said, comparisons are pretty useless.but what do I know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
