bag-less reserve system?

[katzurki 0]

What is the reason we don't pack reserves without a freebag, right into the container, with the spring-loaded pilot chute on top and lines free-stowed?

Sure, it means a huge-ass weight trailing behind the canopy with all that implies, but this shouldn't be catastrophic at a conservative wingloading and it's one point of failure less.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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What is the reason we don't pack reserves without a freebag, right into the container, with the spring-loaded pilot chute on top and lines free-stowed?

I've used a reserve almost like that, but it had line stows on the packing tray, anyway no freebag and connected PC.

[PeteS 0]

The Hobbit reserve was diaper deployed and also the X-210R. Bill Gargano designed the Hobbit and I think was at security when the X-210R was produced.Free stowing lines got out of fashion on mains when a few people went in from lines wrapping around flaps and such, not to mention unstable deployments. I also think it is safer to have the deployment device separate when it's done it's job (on reserves).

[hookitt 1]

Freebags are there to help avoid horeshoe malfunctions, or if the reserve gets fired with the main still out. If the reseve pilot chute is tangled with any part of the main the advantage of a bag and pilot chute not being attached is pretty clear.

Spring loaded Pilot chutes can and do, often fall over the nose of the canopy on deployment. This causes a nifty control problem especially if the reserve is small.

If the reserve is deployed unstable, it's best to get the canopy out to line extension before presenting it to the air.

Pulling feet to the sky, IE tumbling .. the entire canopy will drag across your body parts.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[skydiverek 63]

I jumped triangular TALKA (DELTA PZ-81) reserve. It was a single skin, non ram-air canopy. I have one reserve ride on it... There is no freebag, reserve is "freepacked". Very light toogle pressure, not too hard landing for non ram-air canopy. The reserve PC was connected to the the "cross-connector only" no-fabric-slider to slow the deployment process.

[mark 107]

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I also think it is safer to have the deployment device separate when it's done its job (on reserves).

Absolutely! The freebag/pilot chute arrangement makes a pilot-chute-under malfunction much less likely.

As for freepacking the lines, they already are freepacked in most freebags! Packing lines on a full diaper or in a freebag pocket means deploying lines are farther away from potential snag points as the lines extend.

We need deployment devices (diaper or bag) to meter the openings. There are still a few folks around who have tried jumping without one, but they didn't do it much and they don't do it any more.

Once you have a diaper with a locking stow or two, you wind up with a big wad of canopy that doesn't distribute well in the container, so it doesn't look good and you run into trouble with the fashion police.

Mark

[katzurki 0]

I see.

I entirely forgot about the PZ-81, which is a shame because I jump in a country where this reserve is still relatively widely used.

My question was spurred by someone having a save that can be described as no less than fantastic. It was a Cypres save, the reserve baglocked, the person dumped their main and landed without a scratch.

Since this happened yesterday, investigation is still underway as to whether this was a rigging mistake or gear defect.

[hookitt 1]

I'll await the outcome of the incident report because this sounds ike a low pull more than anything.

Edit to add: There is no time for a jumper to react to a CYPRES fired reserve realize there's a baglock then fire the main.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[phoenixlpr 0]

Bingo. 3 rides on that.

[tbrown 26]

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The Hobbit reserve was diaper deployed and also the X-210R. Bill Gargano designed the Hobbit and I think was at security when the X-210R was produced.Free stowing lines got out of fashion on mains when a few people went in from lines wrapping around flaps and such, not to mention unstable deployments. I also think it is safer to have the deployment device separate when it's done it's job (on reserves).

Pioneer also introduced a 5 cell Pheonix reserve back around 1980 that was deployed from a diaper with an attached pilot chute. All the round reserves were deployed that way & still are, far as I know.

Check out the "double Malfunction" vid at skydivingmovies.com, if that mess doesn't scare you into choosing a freebag, then nothing will. A freebag has allowed a few desperate skydivers to frantically pull their reserves out of the bag and live to tell the tale. If the p/c's still attached, you're screwed. In the final analysis, the free market chose the freebag.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[councilman24 37]

For awhile Strong sold a pilot rig with a round canopy call the Aerosport that is deployed with a free sleeve. Just like the cotton sleeves but made out of light weight nylon. Mouth of sleeve closed with two stows and lines stowed on the sleeve. The apex of the canopy is attached to the top of the sleeve with a piece of 1" velcro about 3 inches long. No sleeve retaining line. It comes free. Also uses a spider slider that is prevented from going all the way to the skirt by two pieces of line each sewn between two suspension lines.

They only sold this for a year or two. I service two of them. They make putting the canopy in a Strong seat much easier.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 643]

Yes, I have packed a diapered Hobbit and a diapered X210R, but that was almost a decade ago.
The primary reason both those reserves had diapers was to make them easy to install in containers that were originally designed for round reserves with diapers.

[mdrejhon 8]

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My question was spurred by someone having a save that can be described as no less than fantastic. It was a Cypres save, the reserve baglocked, the person dumped their main and landed without a scratch.

Since this happened yesterday, investigation is still underway as to whether this was a rigging mistake or gear defect.

That's amazing to think of...(even for this 1-pie wonder...!)

If it's not a low pall, suddenly finding oneself still in freefall below 1000 feet and pulling main without being unaware of a reserve baglock.

Student rig (set to a higher altitude fire) with fast opening parachute? Details, please!

[mjosparky 4]

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I'll await the outcome of the incident report because this sounds ike a low pull more than anything.

Edit to add: There is no time for a jumper to react to a CYPRES fired reserve realize there's a baglock then fire the main.

I agree completely. One of the reasons for 750 feet is at that altitude it is too late for the jumper to react and change the outcome. It is more likely that the main came out when the reserve fired.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Orange1 0]

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Spring loaded Pilot chutes can and do, often fall over the nose of the canopy on deployment. This causes a nifty control problem especially if the reserve is small.

I had this (PC falling over the nose) happen 4 times out of 11 jumps on spring-loaded PC rigs, though I was told it is more common on lightly loaded canopies? (fwiw I had no issues with steering/control, even though the bridle wrapped around a line on one jump, though I was loaded about 0.5 and can see that it could be an issue on a small highly loaded canopy.)

But even if it is more common and less of a problem on lightly loaded canopies, if it is an added risk factor why have it?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.