sartre 0 #51 July 21, 2008 Quote Back in court today to request a change in visitation - he feels that if he is not granted visitation / or partial gaurdianship that in his eyes his ex. wife has decided that she is 100% responsible for the children and he should not have to pay. g This statement made me wonder...which is it the dad wants? Is he wanting more time with his kids, and hoping the threat of withholding money will accomplish that, OR is he looking to get out of paying money and willing to give up seeing his kids in order not to pay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
windcatcher 0 #52 July 21, 2008 OOOuu, there's SO MUCH I could say about the whole child support/custody issue going on in this country. IMO, if the father doesn't get the privilege and LEGAL RIGHT of being in the child's life, he should not be held responsible for taking care of them financially if he isn't allowed to be the parent he needs to be. Mother to the cutest little thing in the world... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #53 July 21, 2008 Quote You mean the system is biased? The system is so biased that it is almost not worth working with, but the only other option is to just bail. So, frustration gets to a point that people are willing to risk jail to get a resolution. Then, there are people who complain that he is being unfair because he is forcing them to work with the same absurd system. "All women are perfect mothers and victims" is a tired, sexist chant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #54 July 21, 2008 Both parties are waging war on each other - stating that neither is a fit parent and believing that each on their own is better than the other. I do believe that he truly loves his girls, and he wants to see his girls as much as possible. However I feel his motives (with money) are more self-absorb and if he doesn't get awarded time or un-supervised visits with his girls - it will be his punishment to his ex. In reality it's the girls who will lose. Money is money, but they will also lose their Dad. g "Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #55 July 21, 2008 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Tell me - who is happier . . . the child that gets nothing but sees it coming in, or the child that never knew anythhing about it? g Maybe you can ask her when you meet her. Why would I want to turn a loving joyous event into something depressing when meeting a beautiful young lady??? g Dunno - did you know she reads the forums here? Oh yeah! So, does she think I'm as crazy as you tell her I am??? g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sartre 0 #56 July 21, 2008 Well, you've got it 100% right....I hope he smartens up and listens to you. Parents who don't put their kids first suck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #57 July 21, 2008 Quote Both parties are waging war on each other - stating that neither is a fit parent and believing that each on their own is better than the other. I do believe that he truly loves his girls, and he wants to see his girls as much as possible. However I feel his motives (with money) are more self-absorb and if he doesn't get awarded time or un-supervised visits with his girls - it will be his punishment to his ex. In reality it's the girls who will lose. Money is money, but they will also lose their Dad. g Heh - sounds like the two of them need to be put in a situation where they would reap what they sow. If that were only possible . . . I'm not saying I'm an angel, but I would love to see a certain mother have to deal with the witholding of needs and watch what is due to her get used up buy someone else.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leapinglizardto 0 #58 July 21, 2008 Quote I hear ya. How about this situation: The dad's a good man, the mom's a psycho. She leaves and takes the kids with her and disappears after the divorce and refuses to allow the dad to find or see their kids.It would be a bitter pill to swallow having to pay child support to a vengeful ex-wife who does that. The kids truly loses here. Yea, but then she couldn't possibly expect to collect child support or enforce the courts to take action, Billy. If she takes off with the kids & goes into hiding, refusing the father his parental rights & court ordered visitation then: *a) She is in contempt of court. *b) The poor guy couldn't possibly pay Child Support, if she's hiding & he doesn't know where, where would he send the checks to. And should put that money towards legally locating his children & refiling with the court, to protect & enforce his parental rights. In this instance, HE would be the one to file an action with the court, on charges of parental abduction, & she would also be guilty if a contempt charge. But so far as the original question in the post, if the court has denied visitation until further notice, pending compliance of court ordered anger management, report of supervised visits from CPS, or whatever the courts decision & follow up are based on. Then YES you are still financially responsible, for ANY child you brought into this world. Just because it has been declared by the courts, that an individual is believed to be unfit to be trusted with the children & their safety, until they prove themselves otherwise. doesn't remove or excuse them from financial responsibility of those children.It's pretty pathetic when you have to TELL people you're fucking cool Skymama «narrative»This thread will lock in 3..2.. What a load of narrow-minded Xenophobic Bullshit!-squeak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #59 July 21, 2008 Quote But because your "SD" didn't/doesn't pay - it skews the views of CS for everyone. There are ways to insure that he does too. There are services that will serve judgements for that kind of deadbeat dad. You can have his liscense revoked. You can have his passport taken away and you can see him put in jail. He didn't pay cuz he never got taken to court. He didn't get taken to court because he lived in another state. That would have required that the county actually make an effort instead of just giving me the royal run around. And I still don't understand why my kid didn't think climbing in and out of the passenger window of the Camaro was cool. I thought it was cool. Just like a race car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
guppie01 0 #60 July 21, 2008 Quote And I still don't understand why my kid didn't think climbing in and out of the passenger window of the Camaro was cool. I thought it was cool. Just like a race car teehee I think it's pretty cool! Although I was horribly embarassed riding around in our beat up red Nova (hit a deer) when I was a child! g"Let's do something romantic this Saturday... how bout we bust out the restraints?" Raddest Ho this side of Jersey #1 - MISS YOU OMG, is she okay? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #61 July 21, 2008 QuoteOOOuu, there's SO MUCH I could say about the whole child support/custody issue going on in this country. IMO, if the father doesn't get the privilege and LEGAL RIGHT of being in the child's life, he should not be held responsible for taking care of them financially if he isn't allowed to be the parent he needs to be. Real life situation I saw in court (different one than guppie's): Kid's mom was a stay at home mom for the first five years of Kid's life, at the insistence of kid's Dad. Dad is a very well paid executive who likes to party. A lot of his earnings go up his nose, and he's never home, and tends to smack the kid and his mom around when he's drinking, which is pretty much whenever he's not high. Mom finally gets up the guts to leave, files for divorce. Proves to the court Dad is an unfit parent, given his record of being busted for possession of drugs, and the numerous domestic violence police calls to the house. Mom's been out of the workforce for five years, and didn't go to college because Dad had discouraged it, because he made more than enough money. She manages to get a secretarial job, which isn't quite enough to make the rent on a one bedroom apartment in the area her son goes to school. Are you saying that Dad shouldn't have to pay child support because the judge didn't grant him visitation??! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilDevil 2 #62 July 22, 2008 QuoteYes. Why do the kids always get punished and used as pawns in their parents' battles? sad but happens a lot, its the kids that suffer at the end of the day, both parents need to do whatever to make things easier for them, I should know i didnt have my dad growing up and its taken till now to start to get to know him.``````````````````````````````````` " Cant keep a good woman down " Angels have wings, but devils can fly ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 July 22, 2008 Tell him to pay, then hire a PI and start the proces to have her declared "unfit" if he really feels she is.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #64 July 22, 2008 Quote Are you saying that Dad shouldn't have to pay child support because the judge didn't grant him visitation??! If he is that horrible, and I am not doubting you, then he should still be given supervised visits.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #65 July 22, 2008 QuoteAre you saying that Dad shouldn't have to pay child support because the judge didn't grant him visitation??! Cherry-picking some inflammatory evidence, counselor? In court, I am sure that it is valuable to stack all the facts to support your opinion before asking. However, that one isolated instance has little to do with this situation. In fact, it has little to do with MOST situations. In most situations, dads are NOT drug-addicted, child-abusing, rich executives. The "one man is guilty, so all men are guilty" is poor logic and sexist. If you said, "one black person is an abusive drug user, so all black people are.", you would be a racist. Statistics show that most fathers do pay their child support while the court. Statistics also show that 40% of women admit violating a visitation agreement to punish the father. QuoteIn a 1997 study "40% of the custodial wives reported that they had refused to let their ex-husband see the children at least once, and admitted that their reasons had nothing to do with the children’s wishes or the children’s safety but were somehow punitive in nature." However, the study is silent on what percentage of custodial fathers do the same. [Julie A. Fulton: "Parental Reports of Children’s Post-Divorce Adjustment", Journal of Social Issues, Vol. 35, 1997, p. 133] Fifty-three percent of the non-custodial fathers claimed their ex-wives had refused to let them see their children. A study by the Florida State University Law Review also stated custody of children is routinely given to the mother in 90% of the cases. It also noted that reports on "fitness" were largely ignored and rarely read. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #66 July 22, 2008 QuoteTell him to pay, then hire a PI and start the proces to have her declared "unfit" if he really feels she is. That is true. You have to work within the system. Otherwise, the system punishes you. $12K for an attorney. $6K for a PI. $4K for a psychologist. $22. That is what I was told for a guaranteed result. Money for newspaper interviews, etc will move the issue forward faster. Courts look at "evidence". Money produces the correct evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #67 July 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteTell him to pay, then hire a PI and start the proces to have her declared "unfit" if he really feels she is. That is true. You have to work within the system. Otherwise, the system punishes you. $12K for an attorney. $6K for a PI. $4K for a psychologist. $22. That is what I was told for a guaranteed result. Money for newspaper interviews, etc will move the issue forward faster. Courts look at "evidence". Money produces the correct evidence. And then they ask for financial disclosure statements in the interim, you disclose what you paid to try to acquire justice and fairness and what is best in the interest of the child, and the judge declares that if you can pay the 22K for litigation purposes, then you can pay more alimony and child support. Fair, isn't it?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #68 July 22, 2008 QuoteFair, isn't it? The "Fair" is a place that you take pigs in the summer. The problem with the Florida court system is that it has been shown, again and again, that a man has a 90% chance of losing before he enters the court. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 882 #69 July 22, 2008 and simply question it while in court? I was removed from my last hearing for asking 3 questions... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #70 July 22, 2008 Quote and simply question it while in court? I was removed from my last hearing for asking 3 questions... asking the judge "are you a f%$#ing idiot" will get you removed every time You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 882 #71 July 22, 2008 that was OUTSIDE the courtroom! I simply asked where to turn myself in at! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #72 July 22, 2008 QuoteQuoteAre you saying that Dad shouldn't have to pay child support because the judge didn't grant him visitation??! Cherry-picking some inflammatory evidence, counselor? In court, I am sure that it is valuable to stack all the facts to support your opinion before asking. However, that one isolated instance has little to do with this situation. In fact, it has little to do with MOST situations. In most situations, dads are NOT drug-addicted, child-abusing, rich executives. The "one man is guilty, so all men are guilty" is poor logic and sexist. If you said, "one black person is an abusive drug user, so all black people are.", you would be a racist. Statistics show that most fathers do pay their child support while the court. Statistics also show that 40% of women admit violating a visitation agreement to punish the father. ... That wasn't my point. I'm sure most fathers do pay their support and try to be good fathers. I'm not arguing with you about that. Windcatcher said that if the father wasn't given the opportunity to parent the child, he shouldn't have to pay to support it. I gave a situation that I saw in real life where the father was financially able, the mother was not and the child was suffering for it, but the father was not a fit parent and would not be granted custody, and asked her if he should still have to pay support in this situation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #73 July 22, 2008 QuoteQuote Are you saying that Dad shouldn't have to pay child support because the judge didn't grant him visitation??! If he is that horrible, and I am not doubting you, then he should still be given supervised visits.] He was that horrible, and I agree with you, but the judge did not agree with us, and he's the one that counts. The child should not have to suffer financially because the judge chose not to grant visitation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #74 July 22, 2008 Family Law Statutes in the State of Texas leaves him or her no choice, Unless he signs them over to the mother with an agreement that he not pay. Other than that, he's done. In the state of Texas, being one day late, a week late, being late at all with a child support payment is a felonious charge of "Failure to provide financial assitance" Let's say your 5 payments, late or behind, or the amount is more than $5,000.00 All you Ex has to do is sick the AG's office on you, you will have a bench warrant placed on you with no possibility of bail. (In some instances) So, we get back to "Pay, or not to Pay" Looks to me like you would be doing your self a service by paying, continue working and keep felonious records off of your sheet.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #75 July 22, 2008 Quote Quote and simply question it while in court? I was removed from my last hearing for asking 3 questions... asking the judge "are you a f%$#ing idiot" will get you removed every time The last time that I was in the ring, the referee said, "Any more disrespect to the referee and you will be removed." The advantage there was that I was able to get a last shot at removing the opponent... successfully. I put him in the second row of bleachers next to his team. I can respect a person who robs a bank with a gun. I can negotiate with them. They've got skin in the game. A person can get a lawyer to lie for them and steal everything you have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
