Stoner on Pole for Leguna Seca

[Squeak 17]

Angry midget not racing due to Injury

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[BikerBabe 0]

and the first one i won't be at since it came back to the states

it's such an amazing track....and sooooo mismanaged. It just wasn't fun anymore dealing with the crap that the track made you put up with to get to and watch the race.

we might try to make Indy next year though!

One odd MotoGP note...we moved out to Ramona, Ca...and every week there's a motogp article in the little local paper. Turns out John Hopkins grew up in this tiny little town, lol.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Squeak 17]

Just watched the World Supers, 2nd Superbike race, nice tight finish

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[bluepill 0]

Moto-GP race at Leguna - Wot a Cracking race that was. Bish bosh bash

And seeing Tom Cruise's head sping round as the bikes went past was pretty cool too.

Not seen the superbikes yet, watching the highlights later.

BP

PS: I think Lorenzo is ummm writing cheques his body can't cash.

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Moto-GP race at Leguna - Wot a Cracking race that was. Bish bosh bash

And seeing Tom Cruise's head sping round as the bikes went past was pretty cool too.

Not seen the superbikes yet, watching the highlights later.

BP

PS: I think Lorenzo is ummm writing cheques his body can't cash.

he's VERY good, but he needs to LEARN the GP bike it's not a 250 like last year

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[base689 0]

Outstanding race.
I has been holding my breath for the whole race up to -8 laps to the end where Casey Stoner went straight on the dirt and feel.
Then Valentino Rossi won with 13" of gap over Casey Stoner.
Valentino kept his position on start (while Valentino is very conservative on starts) and overtook Casey Stoner in the first lap.
Then Valentino and Casey did a little bit of overtake and counterovertake, Valentino remaining the leader.
At -10 lap they two did an outstanding overtake and counterovertake for few laps.
Outstanding show indeed.
Than Casey didn't keep his temper and didn't brake at a curve and when straight on the dirt, fell, put the bike back standing but by now Valentino was gone far.
Really nice and breathtaking show indeed.
What I really DIDN'T like about Casey (which up to yesteraday I held enourmous respect for) is that Casey, after race, declared: "I did a mistake for going straight at that curve but Valentino did some overtake out of the rules that if I did it, they would have disqualified me".
My comment is: the two did a NUMBER of overtake and counterovertake, it is NOT possible that Valentino did them out of the rules and Casey WITHIN the rules.
A MotoGP race is not a classic music concert, it's a motorbike race, everybody tries to win, hopefully within the rules.
Honour and respect to Casy who gave together with Valentino an outstanding show, too childish whhen Casey doesn't win because of a superior performancve by Valentino, because this time Casey did NOT had a motorbike with a superior pace, the two had a very similar pace motorbikes, and the whole race was a chase
Waht an amazing race!
Thare are only two men in the world who gives me really thrilling emotions and make me hold my breath: one is Rocco Siffredi and the other one is Valentino Rossi

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[futuredivot 0]

"Stoner on pole" sounds like a weather hold game

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[Squeak 17]

Whilst Rossi is a Rider of legend, he does tend to push the edge of sportsmanship at times. in tight corners, but yes Stoner should have just let it slide whilts on the mic. if he has a real gripe lodge an official protest or STFU.
Top race though
I cant wait until next year, I get to be at most of the European MotoGP events YEHAWW

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[bluepill 0]

Stoner was way faster than Rossi and should have won but he did 2 things wrong:

1. He let Rossi's antics rattle him.
2. He let Rossi know (both on and off the track) that he had been rattled.

Rossi now has a huge mental advantage over Stoner. Although, IMO there was a massive hint of desperation in what Rossi was doing. I may be proved to be wrong but I saw it as Rossi's last hurrah. The changing of the guard is here and Rossi knows it.

Stoner is gonna walk it when they come back from hols, Next year will see all the new gaurd in, Lorenzo and co.

Squeak - You coming to Moto GP in the UK... Or better yet WSB at Brands Hatch?

BP

[Squeak 17]

Quote

Squeak - You coming to Moto GP in the UK... Or better yet WSB at Brands Hatch?

BP

I'll be aiming for both as well as the TT

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[base689 0]

> Whilst Rossi is a Rider of legend, he does tend to push the edge of sportsmanship at times
—————————————————————————
No way. If we were talking about one single action/overtake by Valentino, we discuss if he did it wrong or wright.
Which is not.
Valentino and Casey did a NUMBER of overtakes and counterovertakes racing side by side, they did it 10 time? 12 times? 14 times?
How on earth you can define Casey's overtakes "fair" and Valentino's overtakes "out of the rules"?
the track is unique and both were doing the same thing: trying to overtake the other.
Poor Casey complains because he arrived second.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[base689 0]

> Stoner was way faster than Rossi...
—————————————————————————
Wrong. If casey were way faster than Valentino, Casey would have left (leaving Valentino behind). Which he didn't.
The reality is that Casey is an outstanding biker with the best (=most powerful) motorbike nowadays on the planet, and Valentino is the best "breaker" (rider who brakes) rider on earth (today), so the whole race was a nearly side-by-side race during which there was a slight prevalence of one in certain parts of the circuit and the prevalence of the other in other parts of the circuit, the final "stuff" being they had the same pace.

> Although, IMO there was a massive hint of desperation in what Rossi was doing
—————————————————————————
Wrong. If you remember well (or if we did see the same race ) , Valentino's lines were clean, Casey's lines were "dirty" (often coming out of curves Casey did "movements of the tail" (of his bike) (sorry I don't have the exact English term))

> I may be proved to be wrong but I saw it as Rossi's last hurrah.
—————————————————————————
Tha last hurrah of what?!?!?!?
We all know that Casey is riding the best and most poerwerful motorbike on earth (presently), and, to be honest, Casey is so skillfull to succeed in interpret Ducati behaviour, very unlikely Capirossi and Melandri, indeed.
Capirossi (who won 3 250 cc championships at the times) in 2006 won a couple of MotoGP races, where Valentino did the pole position and out of nothing, Capirossi did a solo race giving the rest of the world 1" per lap. This means that Ducati was already "there" but Capirossi could Ducati only in few circuits.
Now there is Melandri (who is a 250 cc world champion and who won few races in MotoGP, by the way) with the second Ducati who arrives very late: notwithstanding Melandri is a good rider indeed, he cannot interpret Ducati and so he cannot use all the power Ducati has got. Infact, Melandri arrives nearly last each race.
Honour and skill to Casey Stoner, indeed, for succeedeing in interpret Ducati and its power and he is indeed an outstanding rider who, whenever everything is perfectly set up, does races on its own, without doing one single overtake, taking the lead from pole position and giving 1" or so per lap to the rest of the world. Again, honour to Casey Stoner for being a hell of an outstanding rider, but indeed Valentino's Yamaha has few HP less than Ducati, which fact, according to setup and circuit where there are long straight pieces or not, can succeeed in keeping the pace of Stoner or not.

> The changing of the guard is here and Rossi knows it.
—————————————————————————
Not exactly. If the new guard is as Jorge Lorenzo, Valentino can sleep calm and quiet.
See what happened to Jorge Lorenzo?
One circuit yes and another circuit not, he falls down brutally and heavily. He has got the same Yamaha as Valentino has and the same Michelin tyres as other riders. What does this mean? This (falling down so often) means that Jorge lorenzo is doing things BEYOND his capabilities.
When he will have more issues under his control, he will be capable of riding faster and without falling. Period.
Valentino still is the man to be beaten.

> Stoner is gonna walk it when they come back from hols
—————————————————————————
I hope for Casey to have a monster Ducati (Borgo Panigale folks did an outstanding job creating the Ducati the way it is now) always under his ass, otherwise (with a Honda as in 2006) he is "Mr. Very-good-rider".

> Next year will see all the new gaurd in, Lorenzo and co.
—————————————————————————
When Mr. Jorge Lorenzo will learn how to go fast without being all the time at the , we will see.
It is too easy to be among the first ones being at the limit, which thing causes that any time there is a butterfly wing beat nearby, he falls down.
Lorenzo is a very good raider but this year he is NOT between the possible title winners.
Let's not forget what Valentino did when he won his first world title with Yamaha: he won the title notwithstanding having a way less powerful (than Honda) Yamaha motorbikes, he won thanks to his capability of braking and keeping the bike .
Anyway, this year there are still 7 races to go, the way to the world title is still jolly long.
We will see, the winner will be a matter of motorbike setup and capability of interpreting the remaining circuits.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[nads755 0]

Hands down, most intense race of the year for GP's. Lorenzo probably could have used some sort of parachute after he got high sided into the sunset!!!!

-Gerry!!

[BikerBabe 0]

The nature of the track at laguna seca makes it almost guaranteed to be an intense race. Probably the most technical track of the circuit, i'd bet.

I swear, the view as you come up around over that corkscrew is probably one of the most daunting i've seen (aye, i've ridden the track, though not at race speeds, lol).

Love seeing MotoGP on it =)

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Squeak 17]

Guess who is a "one eyed" Rossi fan

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[base689 0]

> Guess who is a "one eyed" Rossi fan
——————————————————————————————
Yes, I am a Valentino's fan I have plenty of T-shirts with "46" Again, guess who see Valentino's overtakes "out of the rules" and Casey's overtakes "fair"
They did about 10 each and Valentino is the bad guy and Casey is the correct one: come on!!!!!!!!!!
Still you have not commented that issue
The truth is: Casey has been accustomed to have the most powerful (hands down) motorbike and so in 2007 he did pole position and took the lead from there and nearly never found himself in the situation of doing a one-on-one fight for the first position.
This year, 2008, Ducati is still the most powerful and best motorbike in MotoGP but the gap has diminuished with respect to other bikes, Yamaha included, so THIS YEAR it happens once in a while that other have got the same pace as Casey has got, being Casey not accustomed to the fight, and when it happens and Valentino does not put the indicators on whenever he is about to overtake and because Valentino does not remain there once he has been overtaken, poor Casey accuses him of "unfairness".
We all know this is bullshit: if you think to have really been damaged because of an action out of the rules, fine, fill it up an official claim and go.
Otherwise, it would be very wise to stay with the mouth shut up and accept when someone has been stronger and cleverer than you.
As Valentino has said several times this year:
"Casey did a terrific race, I'm glad to have finished second, Casey was untakable this time".
When Casey wins, he wins (and still complains about something that could have gone better...), when Casey looses it's because someone did things out of the rules: this sounds like a spoiled child (to me) who hasn't got anymore the wonderful toy (that was Ducati in 2007) and wins are not any more so easy and so this year Casey has got to really fight to win a race. And complains. Period.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[Squeak 17]

If it's the Ducati that's doing all the work why is Melandri so fucking SHITE on it.

I taped the race (as i do all MotoGP races), and have seen it 3 times. Rossi has a tendency to push riders on the outside of a corner, he is not the only one that does the Xaus is notorious for it and Biaggi used to do it too. they already have the inside line and if there is a rider flanking them on the outside of the corner they try to push them into the gravel.
He does not do it all the time but he does do it, I also have a load of 46 T shirts and think Rossi is one of the top 5 ALL TIME best MotoGP (500GP) Motorbike racers EVER.
But he does tread on shakey ground (sportsman wise) occasionally.

As to the 2nd part of your post.. I already said that in my post earlier with respect to Stoner mouthing off

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[base689 0]

> If it's the Ducati that's doing all the work why is Melandri so fucking SHITE on it
——————————————————————————————
Not exactly.
Casey Stoner is fuckingly good an outstanding rider indeed.
My idea is that Ducati is HANDS DOWN the best and most powerful MotoGP motorbike on the planet. Today.
But this power does not come without a price: when you open up the handle (=throttle), the power comes out brutally (electronics is helping this out, though).
Stoner is, up today, the only rider (honour and respect and skill to him) who is presently capable of using all this power.
A sign of this is that the last race of 2006 (???) when a rider (Gibernau?) of Ducati was unavailable, they gave the second Ducati to Troy Bayliss (who was at the time the leader of Superbike championship), and Troy won taking the lead form the first lap, doing a race of his own. He never rode a Ducati MotoGP before (unless few laps of test).
Ducati being the most powerful MotoGP bike does come with a price: you must be capable of using it, keeping the bike straight and up. Troy Bayliss was capable of using it, was capable of interpret Ducati MotoGP.
Melandri, who is a good rider and a nice chap indeed (won a 250 cc and few races in MotoGP, not exactly the first asshole walking out there), is absolutely NOT capable of handling the Ducati power, it is NOT the bike for him. Period.
Capirossi was sort of halfway between Melandri and Stoner: Capirossi is way better than Melandri but on another copletely different level of skill (on a Ducati) with respect of Stoner: Capirossi was used to finish 5th, 6th, 7th. Melandri is finishing about last each race.

> Rossi has a tendency to push riders on the outside of a corner, he is not the only one that does the Xaus is notorious for it and Biaggi used to do it too. they already have the inside line and if there is a rider flanking them on the outside of the corner they try to push them into the gravel
——————————————————————————————
Each rider tries to overtake where it is barely possible.
Once it is within the rules, ANY rider can do it. There is no copyright about that.
Casey can overtake out of curves because of the power of his Ducati, Valentino can only overtake Casey during the braking entering into a curve, he has no other choice. Yamaha is NOT faster than the Ducati on acceleration.
And coming back to Laguna Seca, the above is not applicable: Casey and Valentino did a number of curves side-by-side, there was no rule nor any strategy of where to attack and where not to: they simply tried to overtake and to respond with a counterovertake any time that was possible, continuously. Doing so, there's no strategy, you just simply try to not being left back.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[bluepill 0]

This is really quite funny.

IMO:

I don’t think there is an issue over who is breaking the rules. I don’t know why you are so vocal about Casey’s outburst. It is after all exactly what Rossi wants to hear.
As I said before, Rossi knows he does not have the full package to deal with Stoners raw speed and skill. Rossi is using every trick in the book to hold Stoner back, and that includes brake checking, running out wide, bar bashing and trying to get under Stoners skin. But that is all part of racing. He is trying to make things happen. And for Stoner to squeal about it at the end, is music to Rossi’s ears.

I raced for 10 years, and from my experience Rossi is showing signs of desperation. He is doing everything he can to stop Stoner. At Laguna, Rossi was a little better on the brakes and Casey carried more speed through the corners and had a better exit speed. The simple fact is, if Casey had got to the final turn before Rossi then he would have disappeared down the start & finish and Rossi would have been left for dust. Rossi knew this, and he never allowed Stoner to exit that last corner first. But there is a subtle change in Rossi’s body language both on and off the track which appear as desperate. I have seen it many times before, if he does not pull it off this year, I would be surprised if he comes back next year. Regardless of what he has signed. Yes I am saying if Stoner beats him to the title, I would not be surprised to see Rossi move on.

I disagree with your points about Stoner being on the BEST bike. Both riders have fantastic skill. But a riders abilty to do well on the track is not simply down to the power of the bike. Its about the whole team, a rider has to be able to effectively communicate to his mechanics on what is happening on the bike. So that they can then together set it up better.

Of course there will be occurrences where a rider will jump on a bike and do well straight away, but that is more a case of the bike just happened to be suited for him, or the feedback he got from the bike allowed him to ride to his full ability.

Stoner can get the bike set up for him really well, and his tyre degradation is OK. However, Melandri just can not get the bike set up. For whatever reason he can not get on with that bike. Stoners ability to be able to get the best out of the bike is key and it is this that which probably scares Rossi the most.

Rossi had the opportunity to join Ducati a couple of years back. But chose not to. Casey did and while the dukes had been doing OK they were still really developing in Moto-GP. Casey has come along and BANG they win a world champ. I am a big Rossi fan but there is no 2 ways about it, what Casey did when he went to Ducati just shows how much talent the lad has. And Rossi, knows it…. That is why he is desperate.

Look it another way. Rossi has been with Yamaha for a number of years now. He has the might of the Yamaha behind him, he is a multi world champion. He is probably in the top 5 riders of all time. He knows how to get the best out of the bike, he knows how to play the game and all his mechanics know what to do for him. And yet with all of that, Casey goes to a new and still developing team in 2007 and ummmm basically SMOKES them all. And he looks like he is going to do it again. That is TALENT.

Casey is not a “good rider”, he will prove to be one of the all time greats. And Rossi, well he will just have to take up golf like the rest of us. Or skydiving.

BP

[base689 0]

> Casey is not a “good rider”, he will prove to be one of the all time greats. And Rossi, well he will just have to take up golf like the rest of us. Or skydiving
——————————————————————————————
Have you got the gipsy'sd glass sphere to foresee the future, or what?
Past is past (=facts), future is future (anything is possible).
Let me write down few data.
Valentino Rossi

1996 125 cc Aprilia 1 victory 9th
1997 125 cc Aprilia 11 victories World Title
1998 250 cc Aprilia 5 victories 2nd
1999 250 cc Aprilia 9 victories World Title
2000 500 cc Honda 2 victories 2nd
2001 500 cc Honda 11 victories World Title
2002 MotoGP Honda 11 victories World Title
2003 MotoGP Honda 9 victories World Title
2004 MotoGP Yamaha 9 victories World Title
2005 MotoGP Yamaha 11 victories World Title
2006 MotoGP Yamaha 5 victories 2nd
2007 MotoGP Yamaha 4 victories 3rd


Casey Stoner

2001 125 cc Aprilia (?) 2 races (18th and 12th)
2002 250 cc Aprilia 12th
2003 125 cc Aprilia 1 victory 8th
2004 125 cc KTM 1 victory 5th
2005 250 cc Aprilia 5 victories 2nd
2006 MotoGP Honda 8th
2007 MotoGP Ducati 10 victories World Title

Now. Let's comment a bit.
Nicky Hayden won the MotoGP Woprld Title in 2006, before and after 2006 Nicky Hayden is just a world class rider, arriving 5t4th, 5th, 6th or so in the final results.
There are plenty of riders like that. According to the rules for points, Nicky Hayden arrived 1st and won the MotoGP World Title in 2006. Before and after 2006, he is just Mr. world class rider (like other 5 or 6 riders).
Casy Stoner in MotoGP 2006 on his honda finished few rces more than the races where he fell. He was a good pilot and Ducati decided to hire him a 2nd for Loris Capirossi who was developing desmo16 Ducati, with a yearly wages for 2007 of 3 M€ for Capirossi and 300.000 € for Stoner.
Then it happened what we all know: Ducati was (and is) the best MotoGP bike on the planet, and Casey Stoner was (and is) the only rider capable of riding it that fast.
Casey Stoner absolutely deserved to win MotoGP in 2007, doiong a number of pole positions and winning hands down 10 races, most of them taking the lead from the start.
Now, let's do the game of "if".
What if Stoner didn't put under his ass a Ducati in 2007?
I'll tell you what: with a honda under his ass, Casey Stoner would habve benn another Mr. world class rider, arriving 4th, 5th or 6th at the end of the year and possibly winning few races here and there.
Casey Stoner is indeed a very good rider who absolutely deserves what he did up now, but from here to say "Casey Stoner will prove to be one of the all time greats", again we nedd tha gipsy's glass sphere to predict the future.
Valentino Rossi rode in 125 cc, 250 cc, 500 cc 2 strokes and he was one above the mass, always. Valentino rode the 1000 cc 4 strokes (MotoGP) and with different brands and kept on winning, Valentino rode when there was no electronics, Valentino is riding now where electronics is definitely present, and he is still winning a bunch of races.
With a decent bike under his ass and good tires, Valentino is still the man to be beaten.
i think there is no doubt that Valentino is the best breaker around, he can enter into curves at a speed and at a pace nobody else can do tosday.
Of course, he can commit mistakes, thare are circuit more keen on him and circuits less keen on him, and so.
Another very good rider with a powerful bike under his ass, can take a bunch of win himself.
To finish: I am really curious to see what in 2009 the 2nd drive of Ducati will do, if this chap will ever approach Stoner's pace or will remain a middle result as a Mr. world class rider. Perhaps in the near future he will come out a rider who is capable of intepret Ducati as Stoner is doing, which thing will lead to have the 2nd drive of Ducati to approach Stoner's pace. If not, then Stoner will prove to be an outstanding rider.
Before then, words are just words.
P.S.: By tjhe way, Valentino will ride MotoGP bikes for few years more, he has too much fun in riding a bike to stop so soon

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com

[Squeak 17]

youare not taking into account one VERY imorptant factor.

Whilst Rossi IS a riding genius, one of the reasons he is able to wins as many races as he does is because of a little old man called Jeremy Burgess,
Burgess was Doohan chief engineer, and when Rossi took on Doohans Mantle Burgess went to Rossi, when Rossi left Honda to go to Yamaha, (a 2nd rate team at the time), Burgess went with Rossi again.
Burgess and his team are outstanding the best MotoGp engineers on the planet, hands down.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[base689 0]

> Burgess and his team are outstanding the best MotoGp engineers on the planet, hands down
——————————————————————————————
I perfectly know the story of Jeremy and that Valentino wanted Jeremy and all his staff to follow him from Honda to Yamaha.
I do agree that Jeremy is the best motorbike engineer around, hands down.
Jeremy can get the best (and something more) out of a motorbike, sometimes he does miracles, but he cannot do double miracles when a certain number of HP is simply missing.
The real culprit for Valentino's defeat first in 2006 and then in 2007 is that Yamaha, on the fact that he was Valentino Rossi who was putting his ass on their motorbike, they didn't do that much (probably nothing...) to improve the bike, especially in the power side.
In 2006 Valentino lost for an incredible number of motorbike/engine failures (which, in the motorbike races, it is quite a rare event that a motorbikes breaks down) and Hyden was indeed very, very regular.
In 2007 lost because his Yamaha had got crappy power compared to Ducati (and really crappy Michelin tires), what Valentino and the rest of the world crew did was another sport.
Honour and skill and merit to Casey Stoner indeed to be able to handle Ducati, to have been able to interpret Ducati's power/behaviour, passing from being the young chap behind Capirossi (earning 1/10 of Capirossi and being a good world class driver, like other 5 or 6 riders) to being the World Champion hands down.
Giving 30" to Valentino and rest of the crew on a race is part due to the skill of Casey but a LOT was due to the power of Ducati.
In an Italian forum, I read a post saying something like: "Casey must infinitely thank the G.o.d. of kangaroos for having Ducati let him drive such a motorbike"
If (yes, this the story of "if's" HONDA, not about the first crappy bike out there.
Again, I am really curious to see where he will place himself the 2nd drive of Ducati next year, how close to Casey this chap will ride with the motorbike.

Stay safe out there
Blue Skies and Soft Walls
BASE #689 - base_689AT_NO_123_SPAMyahoo.com