NickDG 23 #1 August 1, 2008 That's earning your money . . . http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/SUPERGT/3384/ NickD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #2 August 1, 2008 It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #3 August 1, 2008 Amazing!! For those that want to know, this was in 1996 in North Carolina. The pilot was Capt. Chris Rose, of the 113th Fighter Wing, Air National Guard based at Andrews AFB, MD. Source: http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/29/spectacular.landing/So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gravitysurfer 0 #4 August 1, 2008 That's bad ass!! Edit: To add... Uncle Sam should've have bought him beer for that one (about $30mil worth ) aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtval 0 #5 August 1, 2008 I'm betting that there was a lot of beer shared that night. That's a cool video.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #6 August 1, 2008 Quote It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Gee Warped, almost sounded like you knew what you were talking about until that last sentence. Hopefully he landed on his mains first (and it looked like he did). While "conventional" gear aircraft might make "3 point landings", tricycle gear aircraft are generally discouraged from doing that. All of the above said, yeah, nice landing. Hard to tell if it was not -just- dead stick but also had to deal with actual IMC. YouTube compression sucks pretty hard, but it sure did look like he didn't break through the overcast until 4kish. Which is . . . amazing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites birdlike 0 #7 August 1, 2008 Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #8 August 1, 2008 BTW, for those that don't know how to read that display; The direction the nose is pointed is the "+" and the computed flight path is the; | -0- The difference between the two, in this example is more or less the angle of attack. Airspeed is on the left, altitude on the right, attitude in degrees along the middle. As the plane gets near the runway you can see the artificial horizon line that matches with the actual horizon. It's also visible at the very beginning as the incident begins, but the pilot drops the nose quickly to get to best glide speed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #9 August 1, 2008 The man did his job and did it wellController : "You need to get it to stop.." - DOH - No shit Sherlock (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #10 August 1, 2008 Question. I understand that engines were "OUT" i.e. not working at all, so gravity was driving the plane down . BUT I thought "DEAD STICK" meant that you had no control over the planes steering systems? (I am obviously not a pilots little toe) so given that he was steering it and changing attitude, What does "DEAD STICK" actually mean?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LongWayToFall 0 #11 August 1, 2008 Dead stick is no power. If he had no control you can bet he would have ejected. (I know, its confusing, its not a "dead stick") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #12 August 1, 2008 Dead Stick simply means engine out. It's a call back to older days when airplanes had propellers made from wood. Every pilot, both military and civilian, is trained (usually starting with the first "real" lesson) to deal with engine out situations. In fact, pretty much at any time during flight training it's "fair game" for instructors to simulate an engine failure and as a student you can pretty much bet they'll do it at the least convenient times, over and over and over. Pay attention, because you WILL be tested, either by the FAA or worse, real life. Contrary to popular belief, if the airplane loses power, that doesn't mean the airplane will fall out of the sky like a rock. Most airplanes, even crappy, draggy little Cessnas, have a glide ratio at least twice that of the average parachute; 6:1 as opposed to a parachute's 3:1. That is to say the airplane can usually travel "about" 6 miles forward for every 1 mile above the surface. Yeah, there are a lot more details to get it to actually do that, but hopefully you get my drift, while it's an emergency to be sure, it can certainly be a survivable one as long as everybody remains cool and follows procedure. An F-16 at a good altitude with some good speed should have a reasonable chance of landing well as long as it's within gliding distance of an airport. I was really impressed by the added complication of having to also fly on instruments to the airport and make a circling approach to landing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #13 August 1, 2008 Quote Quote It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Gee Warped, almost sounded like you knew what you were talking about until that last sentence. Hopefully he landed on his mains first (and it looked like he did). While "conventional" gear aircraft might make "3 point landings", tricycle gear aircraft are generally discouraged from doing that. All of the above said, yeah, nice landing. Hard to tell if it was not -just- dead stick but also had to deal with actual IMC. YouTube compression sucks pretty hard, but it sure did look like he didn't break through the overcast until 4kish. Which is . . . amazing. You obviously misunderstood my meaning, I KNOW the mains are supposed to touch first, but there was not a nose high attitude (AOA) upon touch down, I guess he wanted to make sure not to bleed too much speed, by flaring the AC. Stop with the condescension ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiver30960 0 #14 August 1, 2008 Excellent video. But... don't we do that on every jump? Like you said, on a wing with a much poorer glide ratio? I know I know... don't flame... I know. Elvisio "related to five military jet jockeys, lucky me" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #15 August 1, 2008 Attitude does not equal angle of attack. He's about 185 indicated over the numbers and about 7 degrees nose high on touchdown. He's most definitely is flairing and using that to bleed off airspeed as he would in any other normal landing at that point. Not "condescension," just facts.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #16 August 1, 2008 An F-16 did a no-power landing somewhere in the vicinity of the Great Lakes in the 1980's (IIRC). I learned about it when I was working at General Dynamics / FW in the late '80's. I was talking to guys who had seen the HUD video."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skiskyrock 0 #17 August 1, 2008 Quote Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). EPU emergency power unit. Runs on engine bleed air or hydrazine to provide 10+ minutes of emergency power and hydraulic pressure. When hydrazine mode is triggered it makes the plane dangerous to approach after landing. The hydrazine is toxic, reactive flammable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 897 #18 August 1, 2008 "Attitude does not equal angle of attack." seems closely related on this site.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #19 August 1, 2008 Quote Quote Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). EPU emergency power unit. Runs on engine bleed air or hydrazine to provide 10+ minutes of emergency power and hydraulic pressure. When hydrazine mode is triggered it makes the plane dangerous to approach after landing. The hydrazine is toxic, reactive flammable. Oooh, look at the fancy doctor guy post. I pour hydrazine over my wheaties in the morning. How ya been Matt? You still over there where people talk funny? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jtval 0 #20 August 2, 2008 Quote "Attitude does not equal angle of attack." seems closely related on this site.... I am totally surprised that the Lawndart had any glide ratio. Those things do non-powered landings all the time. Usually, they don't stay in one piece, though.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
warpedskydiver 0 #2 August 1, 2008 It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #3 August 1, 2008 Amazing!! For those that want to know, this was in 1996 in North Carolina. The pilot was Capt. Chris Rose, of the 113th Fighter Wing, Air National Guard based at Andrews AFB, MD. Source: http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/29/spectacular.landing/So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitysurfer 0 #4 August 1, 2008 That's bad ass!! Edit: To add... Uncle Sam should've have bought him beer for that one (about $30mil worth ) aloha. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #5 August 1, 2008 I'm betting that there was a lot of beer shared that night. That's a cool video.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #6 August 1, 2008 Quote It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Gee Warped, almost sounded like you knew what you were talking about until that last sentence. Hopefully he landed on his mains first (and it looked like he did). While "conventional" gear aircraft might make "3 point landings", tricycle gear aircraft are generally discouraged from doing that. All of the above said, yeah, nice landing. Hard to tell if it was not -just- dead stick but also had to deal with actual IMC. YouTube compression sucks pretty hard, but it sure did look like he didn't break through the overcast until 4kish. Which is . . . amazing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
birdlike 0 #7 August 1, 2008 Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). Spirits fly on dangerous missions Imaginations on fire Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #8 August 1, 2008 BTW, for those that don't know how to read that display; The direction the nose is pointed is the "+" and the computed flight path is the; | -0- The difference between the two, in this example is more or less the angle of attack. Airspeed is on the left, altitude on the right, attitude in degrees along the middle. As the plane gets near the runway you can see the artificial horizon line that matches with the actual horizon. It's also visible at the very beginning as the incident begins, but the pilot drops the nose quickly to get to best glide speed.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #9 August 1, 2008 The man did his job and did it wellController : "You need to get it to stop.." - DOH - No shit Sherlock (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #10 August 1, 2008 Question. I understand that engines were "OUT" i.e. not working at all, so gravity was driving the plane down . BUT I thought "DEAD STICK" meant that you had no control over the planes steering systems? (I am obviously not a pilots little toe) so given that he was steering it and changing attitude, What does "DEAD STICK" actually mean?You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #11 August 1, 2008 Dead stick is no power. If he had no control you can bet he would have ejected. (I know, its confusing, its not a "dead stick") Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #12 August 1, 2008 Dead Stick simply means engine out. It's a call back to older days when airplanes had propellers made from wood. Every pilot, both military and civilian, is trained (usually starting with the first "real" lesson) to deal with engine out situations. In fact, pretty much at any time during flight training it's "fair game" for instructors to simulate an engine failure and as a student you can pretty much bet they'll do it at the least convenient times, over and over and over. Pay attention, because you WILL be tested, either by the FAA or worse, real life. Contrary to popular belief, if the airplane loses power, that doesn't mean the airplane will fall out of the sky like a rock. Most airplanes, even crappy, draggy little Cessnas, have a glide ratio at least twice that of the average parachute; 6:1 as opposed to a parachute's 3:1. That is to say the airplane can usually travel "about" 6 miles forward for every 1 mile above the surface. Yeah, there are a lot more details to get it to actually do that, but hopefully you get my drift, while it's an emergency to be sure, it can certainly be a survivable one as long as everybody remains cool and follows procedure. An F-16 at a good altitude with some good speed should have a reasonable chance of landing well as long as it's within gliding distance of an airport. I was really impressed by the added complication of having to also fly on instruments to the airport and make a circling approach to landing.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #13 August 1, 2008 Quote Quote It is an essential skill IMHO to understand the energy game, and know when you can trade altitude for speed. I liked seeing that he maintained 5 degrees nose down and was able to keep ample airspeed, until such time that he traded it for some speed (10-15 degrees nose down) to land with. Seems like he made a three point landing. Gee Warped, almost sounded like you knew what you were talking about until that last sentence. Hopefully he landed on his mains first (and it looked like he did). While "conventional" gear aircraft might make "3 point landings", tricycle gear aircraft are generally discouraged from doing that. All of the above said, yeah, nice landing. Hard to tell if it was not -just- dead stick but also had to deal with actual IMC. YouTube compression sucks pretty hard, but it sure did look like he didn't break through the overcast until 4kish. Which is . . . amazing. You obviously misunderstood my meaning, I KNOW the mains are supposed to touch first, but there was not a nose high attitude (AOA) upon touch down, I guess he wanted to make sure not to bleed too much speed, by flaring the AC. Stop with the condescension ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #14 August 1, 2008 Excellent video. But... don't we do that on every jump? Like you said, on a wing with a much poorer glide ratio? I know I know... don't flame... I know. Elvisio "related to five military jet jockeys, lucky me" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #15 August 1, 2008 Attitude does not equal angle of attack. He's about 185 indicated over the numbers and about 7 degrees nose high on touchdown. He's most definitely is flairing and using that to bleed off airspeed as he would in any other normal landing at that point. Not "condescension," just facts.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #16 August 1, 2008 An F-16 did a no-power landing somewhere in the vicinity of the Great Lakes in the 1980's (IIRC). I learned about it when I was working at General Dynamics / FW in the late '80's. I was talking to guys who had seen the HUD video."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skiskyrock 0 #17 August 1, 2008 Quote Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). EPU emergency power unit. Runs on engine bleed air or hydrazine to provide 10+ minutes of emergency power and hydraulic pressure. When hydrazine mode is triggered it makes the plane dangerous to approach after landing. The hydrazine is toxic, reactive flammable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #18 August 1, 2008 "Attitude does not equal angle of attack." seems closely related on this site.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #19 August 1, 2008 Quote Quote Haha, Quade, sick burn! Seriously, that was a WAY-COOL video! Respect to that pilot and the guys who helped him. By the way, what's the "ECU" the mentioned, that would require fire response? I didn't see fire trucks (but they'd be coming from the rear, wouldn't they). EPU emergency power unit. Runs on engine bleed air or hydrazine to provide 10+ minutes of emergency power and hydraulic pressure. When hydrazine mode is triggered it makes the plane dangerous to approach after landing. The hydrazine is toxic, reactive flammable. Oooh, look at the fancy doctor guy post. I pour hydrazine over my wheaties in the morning. How ya been Matt? You still over there where people talk funny? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jtval 0 #20 August 2, 2008 Quote "Attitude does not equal angle of attack." seems closely related on this site.... I am totally surprised that the Lawndart had any glide ratio. Those things do non-powered landings all the time. Usually, they don't stay in one piece, though.My photos My Videos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
