Help With RW Suit Choices (please)

[Zeek- 0]

Hello,

Just looking for the $0.02 of anyone experienced with regard to some choices I need to make with buying a new RW suit. Currently I am jumping a Bev suit and am not unhappy with it, although there are a few minor things in terms of cut and color that have brought me to the decision of buying a new one.

After doing the homework a little bit, I think I've narrowed my choices to either another Bev or a Tony Suit...and I am leaning slightly toward the Tony, just to try something new.

A bit about me: I have 300-something jumps, am roughly 6', 200 pounds and, while I don't fall at supersonic speeds, I definitely tend to be on the quick side. This is accentuated by the fact that I'm usually jumping with lighter people and so I sometimes need to watch it to make sure I'm not going low. On the other hand, just finished up a bunch of tunnel coaching with Shannon Pilcher and Thomas Hughes (well worth it, btw) and have been told that my fall rate is actually fairly close to optimal for team stuff. Until then, I'd thought of myself as maybe a little bit too quick but, having been told this, I'm obviously re-thinking things. And so a lot of my concerns are related to messing with my fall rate.

A few things I'm wondering about, if anyone has the time:

1. If anyone could provide me with a crash course in fabrics, it'd be much apprec. (I have cordura in the legs and spandex on the forearms on mine...but that's unfortunately about all I know. There is another material in the chest/abdomen area, but I'm unsure of what that stuff is made of. Sorry I'm not able to provide more info on this.)

2. Tony has two suits I'm considering, the Pit and the Swoop Suit. Pit is supposed to be a faster suit with competition in mind, and the Swoop is apparently a more middle-of-the-road suit that'll give you a wide range. I'm tempted to go with the latter because of the people I'm jumping with, but also don't want to mess with things too much - especially after being told from a couple of the best around that my fall rate is pretty good. And also, I've heard some very good things about the Pit. Has anyone had experience with either of these?

3. One of the pluses on the Tony side of things is also the newer, supposedly improved booties they are using (Airspeed booty?) with their competition suits. I've noticed a definite difference (size, flexibility) between the booties on some of the suits the top guys are wearing and the ones on my own suit. Any thoughts/suggestions here would also be really appreciated.

4. In particular, if anyone has happened to own suits from both of these makers, I'd be really interested in hearing your opinions.

This will be my second RW suit and, since I plan on having it for a very long time, I'm definitely trying to do the homework in the detail department. Thanks very much in advance for any information/opinions/diatribes any of you can provide, and Happy Holidays...

Z

[skybytch 273]

This article may answer your first question.

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I'm tempted to go with the latter because of the people I'm jumping with, but also don't want to mess with things too much - especially after being told from a couple of the best around that my fall rate is pretty good.

I'm assuming that your current Bev Suit is the Competition style (lotsa spandex, snug fitting). Do you find that some of the people you are jumping with have problems staying down with you? If so, go with the "slower" type suit for your new suit, and hang on to your current suit for use when you're jumping with people who fall fast.

Most experienced belly fliers have more than one suit; each suit is used for a different purpose (ie fast for 4 way, slow for outside on a big way, etc). It's called "dressing for success" - to do so you may need more than one suit so you can choose which suit to wear based on what you know or think about how fast/slow the group will fall.

I consider jumpsuits to be tools, and currently have 3 RW suits, each designed for a different application. My slow suit is loose fitting with an ultralite front and bloused arms (ie not spandex). My medium speed suit is also loose fitting but it has a nylon front and spandex arms; I have a pair of slip on forearms that add just a bit more drag if I need it. Neither of those suits have booties; if they did I'd have them made of cordura. My fast suit is snug fitting with a nylon front and spandex arms; the booties are built from parapac. I've also got a weight belt for when I need to go ballistic.

I have only flown one style of booties so I can't help with your bootie question.

I don't think you can go wrong with a suit from either Tony or Bev.

Hope this helps!

[sundevil777 102]

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have been told that my fall rate is actually fairly close to optimal for team stuff.

Optimal for team stuff will not be so great for the common larger loads or even small groups with the ordinary fall rate jumpers. Teams tend to want fast fall rates. A fall rate of 112-118 mph SAS (not TAS) from my protrack is typical for the experienced RW groups that I have jumped with lately.

Skybytch's suggestion that you look at your new suit to provide a different fallrate than your current suit is good advise. The guys at Tony may actually suggest the Tony suit which is even slower than the swoop model. If you go with the Tony model, ask for the leg grips to be like the swoop/pit special, and not the stupid S shape that is std on the Tony model. Always get inseam leg grips, and the double layered arms are effective at slowing the fall rate.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[ParaskiChamp 0]

I've owned 5 Tony suits and i'll never buy another.
The last one, measured by Tony himself, never fit right and lasted 60 jumps before all spandex needed replacement($150 repair).

The new booties come 23 inches high. The replacement booties for an older suit were cut 21 inches high, leaving two holes on the knees immediately above’em ($115).
A third suit needed a new zipper($40).

Tony would not answer my queries about the shorten booties or why he would not use the spandex I had requested.

Tony Uragallo is over-priced, uses inferior materials, lousy workmanship, shody repairs.

[matthewcline 0]

Although I prefer Michigan suits (I have 4 personal suits now and up to 8 more for work).

If you have a Bev, stick with her. She makes a good product and you will have a base to compare your new suit to.

But which ever you decide to buy, talk to the builder (and some experinced folks at the DZ too).

I have had suits from most ofthe big US makers and have had only minor issues with any.

When I went with a different brand there has always been some "quircks" in the new suit to get used to. For some this is not acceptable and they can never get used to the new suit. Occasionally you will here of the issues like mentioned above.

Hope this helps if not or you need more send a PM I will gladly spend more time with this.

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[rmsmith 1]

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A bit about me: I have 300-something jumps, am roughly 6', 200 pounds and, while I don't fall at supersonic speeds, I definitely tend to be on the quick side.

My $0.02: You need loose fitting poly cotton with medium or large wings with the swoop cord attachment located below the armpit area. If you can afford the extra cordura reinforcement then buy it as it will add to the life of the suit. Body Sport in Oregon and Flite Suit in California both make rugged suits, but Body Sport much faster in regarding delivery time. Like Skybytch said, it's tough to rely on one suit, but if one is all you'll have for now then you'd be smart to have some wing at your size and weight. Be sure to have someone at your DZ with experience measure you too.

[Guest 1010]

I just received my Crater suit from Body Sport USA last week, the build quality is excellent as is the fit. Its main purpose is to slow me down some (I'm 190 lbs 5'10") for RW and be a winter suit (it is black), but it is really breatheable so may be fine well in to the summer season. (It was cooold here last month burrr.) I paid the extra $40 for rush service and received it just a little over two weeks from when I ordered it, with a couple early changes too. (Make your changes early, if any). Normal delivery is 5 weeks or whatever their web site says.

You can have it good, fast, or cheap: pick two.

[Zeek- 0]

Thanks very much to everyone for taking the time to reply. I forgot to mention in last post that I see this topic has been covered in some depth before now, but it never hurts to have good, up-to-date info and there is plenty of that right here.

And btw, the "missing" fabric that I could not remember in my previous post is supplex, if anyone was wondering.

Skybytch: Yeah, that approach (the slow suit/fast suit one) sounds like a very good idea. As for the people I am jumping with now staying down with me, I wouldn't say that this is a huge problem under normal circumstances - but then we are probably making routine adjustments to the point which, by now, nobody is even aware that they are being made anymore. Of course, we do have the occasional oopsy and, at the upper end of my range, there aren't too many who can stay with me. But, under normal circumstances it's not out of control - just enough of a concern that it should be addressed if I'm going to be shelling out $$ for another toy. I think I will try to make this suit a slightly slower one (with swoop cords, maybe?), and keep the older one around for the faster stuff.

sundevil777: Not sure what you mean by TAS vs. SAS, but my range is roughly from 108 or so, up to maybe 130ish (flat) with an "average" (relaxed) fall rate of roughly 118-120. And what do you think of swoop cords that I mentioned above?

ParaskiChamp: I have a coupon for some Tony Suits and will sell it to you cheap. :)
Thanks for the info....good to hear all sides of the story.

matthewcline: PM sent! (or will be, in a minute) Thanks a bunch...

rmsmith: Thanks muchly. :) After this, I *will* have more than one suit at my disposal, and I am definitely looking at possibly getting some kind of small wing that can be used optionally. And, btw, how will poly-cotton be (in terms of speed) when compared to supplex?

Once again, thanks to everyone. I appreciate all your help.

[ScottyInAus 0]

RMW Australia
I got a jumpsuit and FF Pants from these guys, all I can say.
They're amazing

Cheers,
Jason.

[RMURRAY 1]

I'd go with Bev. Give her a call and talk to her directly about what you need. Then get several experienced people to measure you up. Stick with Shannon as coach. He is the best!

rm

[sundevil777 102]

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sundevil777: Not sure what you mean by TAS vs. SAS, but my range is roughly from 108 or so, up to maybe 130ish (flat) with an "average" (relaxed) fall rate of roughly 118-120. And what do you think of swoop cords that I mentioned above?

TAS (true air speed) vs SAS (skydiver air speed) is explained in the protrack manual available on line, page 25:

http://www.l-and-b.dk/pdf/english_protrack.pdf

It is a way of 'standardizing' fall rates so that the numbers that a guy jumping in Denver can be directly compared to those jumping at a sea level DZ without need for compensation.

I had the swoop cords added to my Tony model suit, but haven't needed them. Still good to have available if money is not an issue. The heavy cotton fabric and double layer arms are for you, I think. I also have the booties and knees made of cordura, the really heavy stiff fabrics have more drag.

You don't want to have others needing to adjust to your slightly faster fallrate. You will not fly well if you are near either end of your range, much better to be near the middle. Small groups can adjust without too much bother, but that won't work well with larger groups.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skybytch 273]

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how will poly-cotton be (in terms of speed) when compared to supplex?

Polycotton (sometimes referred to as "mediumweight") will be slower than supplex (also known as ultralight).

I've never jumped a suit with swoop cords (at my size, wing is the last thing I need!), but they are a useful tool for bigger people. I'd say get them; you don't have to use them on every skydive, they're easy to remove and on most suits they're a cheap option.

Flite Suit makes a cool removable swoop cord system they call the "Brandi Belt." It can be used in any suit. You can also have it installed permanently in a new Flite Suit. The big advantage to this system, installed or not, over typical swoop cords is that the cord goes from the thumbs down to the waist instead of only to the forearm, which allows you to stiffen the entire wing area.

rmsmith mentioned delivery times - right now is probably the best time to order from any company; this is typically the slow season.