cloud clearance

[quesera 0]

Hey guys. I know this is a completely newbie question, but I can't seem to find the answer to this anywhere:

What the heck does it mean when it says "below 500 feet AND above 1000 feet"? How can you be both above and below the cloud line? Does that actually mean "or"?

Can someone please clarify for me where the plane is flying in relation to the clouds, on the vertical axis? Are you good if you're 500 feet below them, and also okay if you're 1000 feet above them?

Thank you!!!

[pilotdave 0]

Yes, you apply them all separately. You need to be 1000 feet above or 500 feet below. And if you're less than either of those, you need to have 2000 feet of horizontal separation.

Dave

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

One thing - It's not necessarily an "or" situation.

It's quite possible to be between 2 cloud layers (if they are layers of scattered clouds then there is nothing wrong with being there VFR).
Then you can be both above and below at the same time. Then the reqirements of 500 below and 1000 above make a bit more sense.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quesera 0]

Thank you!

[quesera 0]

Thanks!

[tombuch 0]

I think you got your original question answered, but I'll add a bit.

Check out an article I wrote for The Ranch web site a while back when I was S&TA. A couple of points are specific to conditions at the DZ, and most of it relates to FAA regulations in the United States.

The article is called "Article 19-Jumping Near Clouds" and is available at http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[diablopilot 2]

Also remember those cloud clearances are for 10,000 MSL and lower. Above 10,000 MSL, its' "F-111" or, five miles visibility, 1000 above, 1000 below, and 1 mile horizontal.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jim_32766 0]

The rules make more sense if you think of them as being written for airplanes - which they were. Given the limits of horizontal movement during the average skydive (wingsuits of course have more) the above and below rules don't fit skydiving very well. If you jump with a cloud below you will be compliant at first, then in violation as you fall through the cloud per the above/below rules, and then compliant again once more than 500 ft below the cloud. Obviously the way to avoid this violation is to plan your jump to miss any clouds by 2000 feet horizontally (under 10K feet). If you do that you don't have to worry about the above/below numbers.

An interesting tidbit - the FAA examiners I've dealt with in the past have all said that a cloud in the early stages of formation, or dissipation, that you can see through doesn't warrant application of the VFR clearance rules.

The meaning of life . . . is to make life have meaning.

[JohnMitchell 16]

Like the earlier poster said, the cloud clearances and visibility requirements are copied from VFR airplane reqs, in part 91 of the Fed. Aviation Regulations.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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Above 10,000 MSL, its' "F-111" or, five miles visibility, 1000 above, 1000 below, and 1 mile horizontal.

Ahhh, thanks for the excellent mnemonic.

[riggerpaul 1]

Quote

The rules make more sense if you think of them as being written for airplanes - which they were. Given the limits of horizontal movement during the average skydive (wingsuits of course have more) the above and below rules don't fit skydiving very well. If you jump with a cloud below you will be compliant at first, then in violation as you fall through the cloud per the above/below rules, and then compliant again once more than 500 ft below the cloud. Obviously the way to avoid this violation is to plan your jump to miss any clouds by 2000 feet horizontally (under 10K feet). If you do that you don't have to worry about the above/below numbers.

An interesting tidbit - the FAA examiners I've dealt with in the past have all said that a cloud in the early stages of formation, or dissipation, that you can see through doesn't warrant application of the VFR clearance rules.

The cloud clearance regulations also apply when flying a canopy.

If you open above a cloud, you must get 2000 feet horizontal from the cloud before you are less than 1000 feet above the cloud. You can fly under the cloud again when you are 500 feet below.

As previously noted, these numbers are for below 10,000 feet MSL. Above 10,000 MSL, use the clearances mentioned in other posts.

[jim_32766 0]

In Reply to -------------
The cloud clearance regulations also apply when flying a canopy.
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Tis true, there aren't many instrument equipped canopies. Got stay out of the soup with those too.

The meaning of life . . . is to make life have meaning.

[diablopilot 2]

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Above 10,000 MSL, its' "F-111" or, five miles visibility, 1000 above, 1000 below, and 1 mile horizontal.

Ahhh, thanks for the excellent mnemonic.

I'm going to assume you've heard "3 (Cessna) 152's" for below 10,000MSL.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I'm going to assume you've heard "3 (Cessna) 152's" for below 10,000MSL.

Not until now. I just memorized all that crap the hard way at the academy.

[jhnhll 0]

Yep thanks, I will be using those myself. Makes it alot easier.