alan 1 #26 December 20, 2005 I've been jumping with stitched risers on my 89 VX for five years at about 2.4 w/l and saw Andy Anderson using them in Coolidge back in 2000 as well. The change in trim angle is very subtle and the change in drag can be offset simply by what you are wearing on a given jump. With the canopy you are currently jumping at your w/l and swooping experience, I would not expect you to notice any real difference. There is the placebo effect though, if a doctor tells you it will make a difference, and you believe it will, then you may perceive one or become more in tune with what you are doing and actually experience some change. At any point, I would place more emphasis on piloting skills than stitched risers. If you have them, fine, they won't hurt a thing. I did mine with size "E" nylon and have had no wear or failure issues.....no ill effects at all except bulk on the sides of the rig. They make the pack look a little bulky in places, but then so do the stiffeners on the dive loops. Bottom line is it will be a non-issue for you. Have fun.alan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #27 December 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteEdited to reply to Sparky: Radar guns And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky I'll bet Ivan Henry had one... Ivan doesn't but Hank use to have one. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #28 December 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteEdited to reply to Sparky: Radar guns And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky I'll bet Ivan Henry had one... Ivan doesn't but Hank use to have one. Sparky Yeah, and I'd bet that if you cleaned up all the stuff Hank has stashed away you'd probably find out what happened to Jimmy Hoffa... ... Anyway... back on topic... sort-a... Looks like you can buy Radar Guns on eBay and I'm sure you could find them other places. It would be interesting to do a series of experiments to see what / if varrious rig & canopy configurations can change "swoop speeds." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #29 December 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteEdited to reply to Sparky: Radar guns And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky At Quantum Leap, we have serious technology . Just look at our name for crying out loud! Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoShitThereIWas 0 #30 December 21, 2005 Wow, thank you to everyone who responded to this post. Especially crazydiver. I am no ProSwooper by any means of the word which is why I ask the advice of all you knowledgable people. I hope to get really good one day, but I am just at the start of a small incline getting ready to climb a large hill. I am however a rigger and even understanding the way the parachute operates, I am really trying to imagine in my head what kinds of changes stitched risers can make; in more of a scientific observation. Pro swoopers are using them so maybe they actually do have some effect and then as one has mentioned, maybe it is a placebo effect. I like hanging out with and listening to my swoop buddies, they are a hoot to listen to. I used to make fun of them (in a loving way of course) about all the shit they have on their parachutes and all the stuff they have to remember just to fly the dang thing. I would see them literally when they first started using RDSs, dirt diving their removal of it in the airplane. When I'd watch them pack, I'd see them messing with all that stuff. In my mind I was like, does all that crap really make that much of a difference? To myself I thought, I would never have all that crap to deal with. And so ... they have taken me under their wing. Now, what do you know, they are like you need to get rid of that slider and those bumper slider grommet stops. I need a pair of risers for my 107 and my buddy has his stitched ones he said he'd hook me up with. I was like okay ... and then the conversation started. So what do those things really do for the canopy anyway ... Roy Bacon: "Elvises, light your fires." Sting: "Be yourself no matter what they say." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #31 December 21, 2005 NSTIW... all kidding aside... could you (or anyone really) post a pic of these "stitched risers" you speak of if you get a chance? I'd like to see what y'all are talking about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #32 December 22, 2005 QuoteOK so I am looking for some feedback from canopy swoopers and riggers on what their opinions are of stitched risers and how they affect the performance of the canopy. Any physics savy people who can explain the physics of why canopy pilots are stitching their risers laterally besides reduction in drag? Thanks and blue skies. I am not a rigger but why not replace the non functional portion of the front and rear risers with a loop of 1000 lb dacron. kinda like the perminant soft links I had at one time...except extended and sewn together. Fronts and rears would be different. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #33 December 22, 2005 Quote I am not a rigger but why not replace the non functional portion of the front and rear risers with a loop of 1000 lb dacron. kinda like the perminant soft links I had at one time...except extended and sewn together. Fronts and rears would be different. rm I dont know exact forces that can be exerted upon risers during opening, but I do know that type 17 webbing (material used to make mini risers) has a tensile stregnth of 2500 pounds. Perhaps 1500 pound spectra would work better fingertrapped through itself and doubled since it has a higher breaking stregnth. Folks with more manufacturing experience could pipe in. I dont know if type 17 or type 8 webbing has a higher resistance to a sudden shock load where spectra may not? I think the biggest issue is going to be forming a joint/union where the line meets the webbing for the functional parts of the risers that is strong enough to withstand extreme opening forces. The question is if it can hold if the pressure of the canopy is distributed unevenly during opening on one or more of the risers. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #34 December 22, 2005 joints would be same as today. think of an extended soft link and a shortened coventional riser. only for top swoopers where aerodynamics is actually a factor - taken to the extreme only good for hop n pop (competetive) jumps. make the new piece out of the thinnest diameter stuff available while being reliable. good thing I am not a rigger! rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,467 #35 December 22, 2005 Hi Travis, I've been giving that very idea some thoughts; I kinda like pondering ideas, it keeps Alzheimer's at a distance. The problems that I saw were: 1. Lots of engineering time invested 2. Lots of R&D effort invested 3. Little actual demand in the marketplace 4. The risers would have to sell for around $200/pair 5. Some young rigger would build them in his basement, undercut your pricing and steal all of your potential customers. It gave me a lot of time considering all of the issues but in the long run, it just doesn't work out. It was just a good mental exercise. Since you mention where the line meets the webbing, let me do a little bragging (if I might be allowed). Look in Poynter's very first manual in Section 8.2.1.C.2.b and you will see some work that I did long ago on line strengths vs attachment methods. Now, do not let my negativism keep you from continuing to think about new things. Who knows, one day you may come up with the next greatest whizbanger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #36 December 22, 2005 Quotewhy not replace the non functional portion of the front and rear risers with a loop of 1000 lb dacron. kinda like the perminant soft links I had at one time. It's too much crap. There's more things to break, and I can't see it being any better than a stiched riser, which is simple, and even if the stiching fails, you still have a regular riser to fall back on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #37 August 13, 2007 "And how many jumpers carry a radar gun in their kit bag? Sparky" I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
