How many altimeters?

[wmw999 2,560]

I believe Dom mostly does RW, and maybe even mostly 4-way. 4000 is a nice conservative altitude from 4-way if you don't jump a canopy that snivels for 1200 feet.

I normally dump a little above 2, and I'm open by 1800 (which is where my pro-track is set). And I'm very happy with that; it's consistent and I know what to expect and when.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[virgin-burner 1]

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I'd recommend something different. These are just my opinions... Lose the digital altimeter and replace it with a reliable analog altimeter. Once you're comfortable that you can do alright without an altimeter, go ahead and put the digital one back on if you want. The analog altimeter will be waiting in your gear bag for your batteries to die again.

Also, lose the audible. I think relying on an audible altimeter to know when to break off and when to pull is a disaster waiting to happen. Or at least a low pull waiting to happen. Audibles make people lazy about altitude awareness. They don't provide altitude awareness except when they beep. When they don't beep, you aren't altitude aware if you're relying on an audible.

Relying on your eyes is great... when your eyes are trained. That takes time to develop, which is why AFF students are taught to pull if they can't read their altimeter for any reason. No altimeter = no altitude awareness... at least at first.

If you really want an audible, use it as a true backup. Set breakoff and pull altitudes 100 feet low. If you hear them before acting, you weren't altitude aware. But they reminded you before it was too late. If it happens often, its probably a sign that you should move that audible to your pocket for a while and work on altitude awareness.

It's amazing how easy it is to become reliant on an audible. It happened to me a long time ago. I had an audible that stopped beeping at pull time sometimes. I'd break off and then track until it beeped. But one day it didn't beep. My track felt awfully long so I checked my altitude and found myself a little above 2000. Way below where I had planned to pull. After that, having an unreliable audible was a great thing. I learned not to rely on it.

I personally suggest waiting until you have at least 200 jumps to add an audible. Develop good habbits before you destroy them.

Dave

wow, 100ft!? that's less than a second, so you're that accurate!? you're awesome!

wow, 2000ft!? so what was your intended deployment-height!? 2500ft!? wow.. you're so awesome, i just wet myself a little..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

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I believe Dom mostly does RW, and maybe even mostly 4-way. 4000 is a nice conservative altitude from 4-way if you don't jump a canopy that snivels for 1200 feet.

I normally dump a little above 2, and I'm open by 1800 (which is where my pro-track is set). And I'm very happy with that; it's consistent and I know what to expect and when.

Wendy P.

4000ft is stupid for break-off in my books; but hey, i'm the bad boy around here, so yea, rather jump a highly loaded wing then and actually deploy at that altitude.. just like most of my friends will.. AND, i got some sort of reputation for pulling low..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[virgin-burner 1]

nevermind, i'm just a bad boy, i'm drunk, and i couldnt care less..

hey, is a safire2 119 a suitable canopy at a WL of almost 1.8 for a jumper with less than 300 jumps!? i'm just asking for a friend of mine..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[billvon 3,090]

>wow, 2000ft!? so what was your intended deployment-height!?
>2500ft!? wow.. you're so awesome, i just wet myself a little..

At many bigways you'd wet yourself a _lot_. 5500 breakoff, 2500 deploy is a common plan for the outer rings. And there can be a lot of people in those outside rings.

[virgin-burner 1]

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>wow, 2000ft!? so what was your intended deployment-height!?
>2500ft!? wow.. you're so awesome, i just wet myself a little..

At many bigways you'd wet yourself a _lot_. 5500 breakoff, 2500 deploy is a common plan for the outer rings. And there can be a lot of people in those outside rings.

while you may be right, and i think seperation at 5500 is good enough, pulling at 2500 is NOT your "standard-procedure".. on an everyday skydive - not on world-records..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[ridestrong 1]

I got a Viso around jump #30 and when I jumped it for the first time I accidentally had it set on speed instead of altitude. I essentially just stayed belly to earth and didn't do any f'n around so I could stay fully alti aware. I pulled entirely on sight and after checking the log found out I was under at ~3,500' which was my avg at the time. I also set up my landing pattern and landed accurately without an alti. I would never stop jumping with an alti but if my batteries went dead on the ride up it wouldn't stop me from jumping out. I would also never jump with 2 alti's (my audible excluded).

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[tetra316 0]

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>wow, 2000ft!? so what was your intended deployment-height!?
>2500ft!? wow.. you're so awesome, i just wet myself a little..

At many bigways you'd wet yourself a _lot_. 5500 breakoff, 2500 deploy is a common plan for the outer rings. And there can be a lot of people in those outside rings.

while you may be right, and i think seperation at 5500 is good enough, pulling at 2500 is NOT your "standard-procedure".. on an everyday skydive - not on world-records..

You are right. It is more like deploy at 2000 to 2500. Yes on world records. Not every canopy takes 1500 to open and not everyone is scared to open at 2k.

[Squeak 17]

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. If it were a coaching jump or anything dealing with a student, I would wear one just so they see that I am wearing one. Instructing is a different, you need to know when the student did or did not do something.

you dont think that they see you when yo are not coaching,
They are more likely to take cues from you being a "normal" skydiver than they will from you being thier coach.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I strongly recommend learning to land 100% by sight. It's a lot safer to keep your eyes out than to spend time (even a little time) looking at an altimeter.

I asked Andy Farrington one day about that, because he makes his living swooping. He goes by eyeball, not altimeter.

If you keep your eyes on the ground, you won't miss it.

I lost my audible 3 years ago to riser slap on a tandem. I've been using just my Alti-3 on my left hand since. No worries.
I've had a few audibles not work properly or I just didn't/couldn't hear them. I can't see myself ever getting rid of my visual altimeter.

[AggieDave 6]

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I strongly recommend learning to land 100% by sight. It's a lot safer to keep your eyes out than to spend time (even a little time) looking at an altimeter.

I asked Andy Farrington one day about that, because he makes his living swooping. He goes by eyeball, not altimeter.

That brings up a neat point, in the shift in many of today's competitive swoopers. Since the introduction of an accurate and easy to read digital altimeter with 10's of feet, a large majority of swoopers have started using them. They're not used to meter the turn as much as to clean up the pattern altitudes to get to the initiation point at exactly what altitude they want. There are some that don't use that method, but out of the 60 or so competitors at CP nats last year, I would venture to guess around 95% of them were running at least one digital altimeter. Many had audibles as well.

Even still, Andy would wipe the pond with me!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Joellercoaster 6]

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that's why I make chirping noises as I approach the ground and listen to the bounceback to time my flares

Until you jump at a higher density altitude, of course. Then you're screwed.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[piisfish 140]

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4k break-off!? and when is your pull-time then, after adequate separation of course? and when is your "oh-shit!!!"-moment!?

4k ft is a correct altitude for breakoff in many disciplins...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Ron 10]

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4000ft is stupid for break-off in my books

Been using 3.5k for 4way and 4k for 8way or larger for 16 years.

I pull around 2.2-2.5 and have been doing that for >4k jumps.

Just because YOU don't approve does not mean it is "stupid".

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pulling at 2500 is NOT your "standard-procedure".. on an everyday skydive - not on world-records..

For many people it is.....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 3,090]

>pulling at 2500 is NOT your "standard-procedure".. on an everyday skydive

Around here it is. Your mileage may vary.

[dgskydive 0]

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4k break-off!?

What is wrong with breaking off at 4K? Never had anyone question that.....ever.

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when is your pull-time then

turn and track for a good 5 seconds, clear and pull at around 2k.

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and when is your "oh-shit!!!"-moment!

The second it didnt look or feel right.

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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while you may be right, and i think seperation at 5500 is good enough

You wont get many people to agree with you on break off at 5.5 from my experience. I honestly cant remember breaking off that high, unless it was as part of an outer ring on a big way.

Wendy is right I did a lot of 4way and big ways whenever I could. Pulling right around 2k is pretty normal as well. I have never been accused of being a low puller, so I dont think I am off on that. Most of the time, According to my protrak, 1800 feet or so was when I was under canopy.

If your not comfortable with breaking at 4k, then you would really shit yourself, watching 4way teams practice exits at around 5k and turn as many points on the hill as they can before tracking and pulling.

I would suggest that you maybe take it down to 4k for break off and get used to it, because one day you will find yourself at 4k with jumpers around you. Unless they agree to your higher break off. I wouldnt, I want the 10 seconds or so of free fall your missing every jump.

Dom

[virgin-burner 1]

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while you may be right, and i think seperation at 5500 is good enough

You wont get many people to agree with you on break off at 5.5 from my experience. I honestly cant remember breaking off that high, unless it was as part of an outer ring on a big way.

Wendy is right I did a lot of 4way and big ways whenever I could. Pulling right around 2k is pretty normal as well. I have never been accused of being a low puller, so I dont think I am off on that. Most of the time, According to my protrak, 1800 feet or so was when I was under canopy.

If your not comfortable with breaking at 4k, then you would really shit yourself, watching 4way teams practice exits at around 5k and turn as many points on the hill as they can before tracking and pulling.

I would suggest that you maybe take it down to 4k for break off and get used to it, because one day you will find yourself at 4k with jumpers around you. Unless they agree to your higher break off. I wouldnt, I want the 10 seconds or so of free fall your missing every jump.

150i0 meters for the casual 2- or 3-way freefly-stuff, 1800 meters if it's something bigger.. oh yea, and i'm usually in the saddle by 900 meters..

that's how we do it over here; as billvon put it, your mileage may vary..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[JohnMitchell 16]

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[Unless they agree to your higher break off. I wouldnt, I want the 10 seconds or so of free fall your missing every jump.

Hell, we could just plan a few 3-way points for when after he leaves.

[airtwardo 7]

~that's how we do it over here...

And that's the way we like it...YOU over THERE!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[dgskydive 0]

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I would never stop jumping with an alti but if my batteries went dead on the ride up it wouldn't stop me from jumping out

Or if your shooting video for a tandem and the TI forgets his Alti and you give it to him. That was my 1st time jumping without an Alti. i had about 500 jumps and the DZO was taking a student for a tandem, he forgot his. Reached over and grapped mine off my hand. I looked at him like he was nuts. He said just pull 5 seconds after I do. I lived

Dom

[dgskydive 0]

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Hell, we could just plan a few 3-way points for when after he leaves

I have seen and I know you have as well, that very thing happen. Even on BIG ways. The base starts turning points as the last wave leaves at 4.5 or 4. Helps keep everyone in place until the right break off. Plus it is fun.

Dom

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I would never stop jumping with an alti

How about for Hop and Pops?
Seriously, like when putting S/L students out, I don't wear one because it gets in the way and the students stare at it and get nervous.

[davjohns 1]

Hmmm...lots of opinions. I should have known.

Just for the record, I always land my hang glider by eye. I had no problem with the canopy either. That was just an aside and not really part of my question.

Also, comparing number of jumps with currency was an error. I finished AFF just before deploying for 15 months. Throws your math off.

Thanks for the opinions. It all helps.

dwj

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[SEREJumper 1]

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Also, lose the audible...Audibles make people lazy about altitude awareness. They don't provide altitude awareness except when they beep. When they don't beep, you aren't altitude aware if you're relying on an audible.

+1 on the above, spot on. To answer your question, I wear two visual altimeters. A Alti-2 Galaxy and a Neptune on one wrist strap. I'm doing AFF 99% of the time and I've had a digital go out on me a few times.

I obviously also use my good ole' eyeballs as well. I like the old saying "Two is one, and one is none".

We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar