jumpjunkie2004 0 #1 August 25, 2005 I'm still renting gear. At my DZ, there are two 230's available, I keep renting the same rig because the container doesn't leave bruises on my body. I've been told that I need to learn to land the 230 before I downsize. I've been renting a Spectre 230, and I'm not sure what type of canopy is in the other container. Yesterday, I went to a different DZ and rented a Silhouette 230. The gentleman behind the counter told me that it would be easier for me to flare. It was so much easier. We only got three jumps in, but two were standup landings. How did he know the Silhouette would be better for me? I feel like I can't slow the Spectre down - could the brake lines be to long for me?Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 August 25, 2005 QuoteHow did he know the Silhouette would be better for me? The Silhouette has a bit lower toggle pressure than the Spectre. Lower toggle pressure makes it easier for those who don't have a lot of upper body strength to flare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hemphog 0 #3 August 25, 2005 QuoteI feel like I can't slow the Spectre down - could the brake lines be to long for me? 1st time on a new canopy you should always check the stall point. Keep flaring and find the point where it (the flight/feel of the canopy) gets "mushy"... the brink of stalling. Then slowly continue until the canopy stalls. If your brakelines are too long, you won't be able to do this without wrapping the lines around your hands. (Make a point here to see how much MORE past a full arm extension you need to stall it). Then talk to the rentor about readjusting them. Personally I have my stall point just under my hips (almost full arm extension). Spectre's are known to have a strong flare in them. You shouldn't be having issues as long as you're flaring correctly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Ya we'll rape the local objects, and maybe do some jumps too!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,482 #4 August 25, 2005 QuoteHow did he know the Silhouette would be better for me? You're at a point in your progression where you should be pointed to reading the information about both canopies from the manufacturer and be able to answer that for yourself. Clue: The structure of the canopies hasn't been addressed yet. http://www.performancedesigns.com/products.aspNobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #5 August 25, 2005 How much do you weigh? It's real hard to get an idea of how the canopies are loaded without knowing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #6 August 25, 2005 Thanks! I'll follow the link and check it out!Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,482 #7 August 25, 2005 Excellent. And, while you may not derive the specific answers, you may come up with more qualitative questions for your rigger or instructors, like; What is Chord? What is aspect ratio? What's the primary difference between 7 & 9 cells? How do these affect a canopy's performance? Clue: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=545Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #8 August 25, 2005 It may take me awhile to read all this great information! I didn't realize that the weight recommendations varied from canopy to canopy. I thought a 230 was the same across the board. I have so much to learn! I really appreciate the fact that people with experience are willing to help us find our way through this sport. Without you guys, we'd be totally lost. Thanks again!Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #9 August 25, 2005 QuoteI thought a 230 was the same across the board. No, some canopies fly a lot better than others when lightly loaded, especially when it comes to landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #10 August 25, 2005 Quote 1st time on a new canopy you should always check the stall point. Keep flaring and find the point where it (the flight/feel of the canopy) gets "mushy"... the brink of stalling. Then slowly continue until the canopy stalls. If your brakelines are too long, you won't be able to do this without wrapping the lines around your hands. (Make a point here to see how much MORE past a full arm extension you need to stall it). Then talk to the rentor about readjusting them. Sorry, but this is bad advice. You aren’t addressing if the lines are too short, which tends to cause many more problems than the lines being a hair too long. Most canopies, particularly larger ones, won’t do a full stall without a rap or two…even with the brakes lines set at a correct length. There is rarely a need to stall a canopy for landing. There is a constant need to avoid the canopy being in partial brakes in “full flight” because the lines are too short. Trying to land a canopy that is in partial brakes because the lines are too short will make landing more difficult. How much slack is in your brake lines in full flight? How far do you have to pull a toggle down before it deflects the tail?"We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #11 August 25, 2005 I did fine with the Spectre 230 that I rented in DeLand. I came back to my DZ and rented a Spectre 230 and I'm having trouble with my landings. I going to start adding the canopy characteristics (stall point, etc) to my log book so I will have a reference. Jumping rental gear a various locations makes learning more difficult. When I'm ready, there is a Sabre 2 - 210 waiting for me to try - a friend is going to lend it to me after she gets her new rig. So, I won't have to rent much longer.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #12 August 25, 2005 QuoteI did fine with the Spectre 230 that I rented in DeLand. I came back to my DZ and rented a Spectre 230 and I'm having trouble with my landings. There are lots of factors that affect a canopies ability to land, some of them related to the weather condition you're jumping in (wind amount, density altitude), some of them related to the canopy. Microlined canopies change trim as they age, as result of the lines with the greatest contact with the slider grommets (usually affects the outside lines the most) shrinking due to friction from the slider. It could be that the Spectres you've jumped really do fly differently due to differences in trim... "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 August 25, 2005 At the risk of over-simplification: Spectres have 7 cells, while Silhouettes have 9 cells. 9 cell canopies have larger "sweet spots" during the flare. In other words, you can flare a second too early or flare a second too late and still get a soft landing. On another note, I suspect that the two Spectres had hundreds of jumps difference on thier line sets. A Spectre with new lines will fly great, while a Spectre with 800 jumps will fly like cr@#$%!. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,482 #14 August 25, 2005 Hey!! No fair passing answers during a test!! Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #15 August 25, 2005 You STILL haven't told us your WL....but I checked your profile and you're a girl, so I'll assume with canopies that big that it is around <=0.8. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EvilLurker 2 #16 August 25, 2005 Quoteso I'll assume with canopies that big that it is around <=0.8. Yeah, I'm thinking she's got those boats loaded pretty lightly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #17 August 25, 2005 Sorry - missed that earlier. I'm a "big girl". I'm 5'8" and my weight fluctuates from 152-162 - depending on the season. I'm an oddity - I actually weigh more in the summer because I don't have time to exercise.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #18 August 26, 2005 HEY!!!!! I'm 5'8" and I weigh.... ....well... never mind! But I'm not a big girl! My jumpsuit is just getting tighter. Seriously. Ask your DZO how many jumps are on the Spectre and how many on the line set. By now you should have an idea of what canopy you want to be on for the next 100 jumps. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #19 August 26, 2005 It's so nice there are some situation when we can ask a woman's weight without insulting her :). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegreekone 0 #20 August 26, 2005 QuoteIt's so nice there are some situation when we can ask a woman's weight without insulting her :). I still recommend ducking after. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bwilling 0 #21 August 26, 2005 QuoteHEY!!!!! I'm 5'8" and I weigh.... well... never mind! Stiletto 89 ft² (1.80 lbs/ft²) the math's not that hard... "If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #22 August 26, 2005 DOH!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #23 August 26, 2005 Oh...I failed to mention that 20 of it is in my chest - I'm very top heavy. Does that need to be factored in??? Seriously though, I am starting to learn the questions that I need to ask. I'm not ready to commit to a canopy yet - I'm a little behind the curve. I broke my ankle on jump 7 - had weather issues and did some recurrency jumps. I think in another 20 I'll be ready to move down to the 210.Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #24 August 26, 2005 QuoteOh...I failed to mention that 20 of it is in my chest - I'm very top heavy. Saaaweeeeeeeeet.... What, are they removable and you weighed them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpjunkie2004 0 #25 August 26, 2005 QuoteWhat, are they removable and you weighed them? LOL ~ I wish! Actually, they are removable and reducible. However, it will cost about $8,000 and my insurance will not cover the surgery unless I weigh 132 lbs (or less).Jump, Land, Pack, Repeat... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
