Replacing Reserve Side Flaps

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

Quote

An overlay of the reserve flaps is not a repair, major or minor. It is an alteration. Nothing is being repaired, it is being altered.

Sparky

That was the point I was trying to make, I guess I could have just come right out and said it. Although some may consider the second skin "applique"(sp) IE: cosmetics like stripes, piping etc and not an "alteration". Uh oh it's getting grey in here again.

Mick.

If you are making a change from the original drawing it sounds to me like that would be an alteration. Without testing how can you say there would be no affect on function.
Since there is nothing broken, nothing is being repaired. Seems pretty simple to me. But then again what would I know.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[sundevil777 102]

So the owner could damage it intentionally, therefore making it a repair, and take away the problem.

Everybody wins.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

So the owner could damage it intentionally, therefore making it a repair, and take away the problem.

Everybody wins.

The owner could do what ever he/she wants. I could care less, not my rig.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[masterrigger1 2]

Quote

Sorry Mel but your dead wrong on this one. This is not a gray area. It is clearly spelled out. Master riggers may make major repairs. Senior riggers may not make major repairs unless supervised by a master rigger.
No where does it say that I must get approval for a repair once I have my masters ticket. Alterations yes but not repairs. In fact, I'll bet if you called the FSDO about a repair, they would not have the slightest idea what the hell you where talking about. They might know something about aircraft but trust me, they don't know dick about parachutes except who may work on them and when they need to be repacked. Beyond that, they are lost. The FSDO guy will say something like. "Are you a master rigger?" You'll say "yes" then he'll say "ummm lets see.... well I guess you can do the work then" End of story. He doesn't know you or your skills. He only has a very thick book full of regs to go by and frankly, the conversation was a complete waist of not only your time, but his as well. Try reaching him after three in the after noon or on a weekend. Good luck.

Why after all would the FAA grant some one the capacity to perform major repairs only to make them check in every time they did one? Would this include something as basic as installing a patch larger than 8" and incorporating it into a seem. After all that is one definition of a major repair is it not? Hell, I do that one every day of the week and twice in sunday. Do you mean to tell me that I have been in violation of the regs all this time? Not bloody likely.

Kevin,
Form 337 comes to mind, although no one ever uses the correct procedure.

AC43-210 lays it out for ya!

I just happen to go through a FAA course in OKC, OK last week regarding some of that material.

http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa337.pdf Also look up the AC.

MEL

Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

[riggermick 7]

Quote

Quote

Quote

An overlay of the reserve flaps is not a repair, major or minor. It is an alteration. Nothing is being repaired, it is being altered.

Sparky

That was the point I was trying to make, I guess I could have just come right out and said it. Although some may consider the second skin "applique"(sp) IE: cosmetics like stripes, piping etc and not an "alteration". Uh oh it's getting grey in here again.

Mick.

If you are making a change from the original drawing it sounds to me like that would be an alteration. Without testing how can you say there would be no affect on function.
Since there is nothing broken, nothing is being repaired. Seems pretty simple to me. But then again what would I know.

Sparky

Hey Sparky (you probably know this already, but hey enjoy) and other curious parties,

Just for general discourse and for the curious who have heard about rig drawings (you hear it banded about all the time on this forum) but whom have never actually seen one (in this case a very small part of one, the total package is huge) here's what one looks like.

Each and every manufacturer has a different style, interpretation, and size package for their individual product/ process, there is no set format that the FAA requires it to be presented in. That being said: The drawing package must be legible, must be able to be interpreted by "someone reasonably skilled in the art" and otherwise contain all the pertinent information required to produce the product and any subsequent copies repeatedly and consistently.

Attached is a second tier, first sub level component drawing of the Reflex reserve container (it's one of seven different sheets that make up just the reserve sub assembly, there are many many more sheets involved for the entire rig). The material data/ spec sheets for this page are not shown.

Notice the the two numbers preceeded by dashes in the lower left corner of the drawing (-33 and -31), those are part numbers. Part numbers require a patern along with the apropriate tool ang gauge controls that go along with them to check/ maintain consistency. The numbers with circles around them are item numbers. Item numbers are fixed property objects such as grommets, binding tape, webbing CYPRES pouches etc.

If any alteration or re-fabrication of articles carrying part numbers is required the original drawing and/or pattern (or a copy of) needs to be used. The factory is sure as hell not going to give up their intellectual property to all and sundry who request it. This type if information is hard fought for and difficult to compile and being such a small industry it is jealously gaurded. Rightfully so.

So how do individual repairmen in the field accomplish these types of repairs without this information? Good question, most skilled repairmen will just "dead recon" it and that will be that. Depending on how skilled and conscientious your repairman is will weigh heavily on the outcome of your repair.

As you can probably tell from the drawing the reserve side flaps, vertical wall and pack tray are actually all the same piece. Most modern rigs are built this way as it is accurate, cost effective and relatively simple to produce. This should also alert you to the fact that replacing a single flap is exceedinly difficult and time consuming considering all of the other parts of the rig that surround the reserve container.

So the next time you are wondering why your rigger says he has to send your rig back to the factory to have xyz flap fixed (read: Replaced usually) you'll have a better understanding of why, as most riggers out there do not have the equipment or skill to be able to pull off a repair of similar magnitude.

I'm only posting this for educational purposes, I believe that "your average jumper" needs to be better informed about their equipment.

Mick.

[riggermick 7]

Can someone help out. How does one reduce the size of the attachment so that it can be reviewed easily? Much thanks in advance.

Mick

[PhreeZone 20]

Actually Mick, thats a perfect size. Enlighting for sure!!!

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mjosparky 4]

Mick,

If you could, please post a material/data spec. sheet. It will show just how detailed things can get when manufacturing and latter making repairs to a rig.

And I agree with you, "your average jumper" needs to become better informed on the gear they jump with.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[riggermick 7]

Quote

Mick,

If you could, please post a material/data spec. sheet. It will show just how detailed things can get when manufacturing and latter making repairs to a rig.

And I agree with you, "your average jumper" needs to become better informed on the gear they jump with.

Sparky

You know, I don't have the actual paperwork for the materials in question (Bomber Mfg. has all that) but I do have the material request/ data sheet for the previous drawing. It describes the materials required and their lengths/ quantities as well as the patterns required to produce that piece.

Also shown is a page from the manufacturing operations sheet (the written instructions that go with the drawings and patterns). Although a pattern would be impossible to show here I have included the master CAD pattern spec sheet for the piece in question (minus any measurements) To show how one would look.

Armed with all this information one "reasonably skilled in the art" should be able to reproduce the piece accurately and repeatedly.

Of course there is a lot more involved in the process but I think this gives a pretty good idea of some of the complexity involved in rig production.

Next time anyone feels like bitching about rig prices think about all of the time and expense that go in to designing, certifying, building and marketing a harness container. If it were that easy everyone would be doing it!


Mick.

[mjosparky 4]

Quote

You know, I don't have the actual paperwork for the materials in question (Bomber Mfg. has all that) but I do have the material request/ data sheet for the previous drawing. It describes the materials required and their lengths/ quantities as well as the patterns required to produce that piece.

And when you say drawing and patterns, there are the "working patterns" and the "master patterns" and then the "master drawings" and the "working drawing" and it goes on and on.

Thanks Mick!

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals