Skyhook equivalent

[packerboy 3]

Heres one for the manufacturers. Based on current discussion in the incidents forum, it seems to be a general consensus that the skyhook is a far superior device than a normal RSL (makes sense).

Are gear manufacturers other than R.W. working on an equivalent or similar device for their gear?

How many people own gear other than Vectors would be interested in it?

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[kingbunky 3]

i'd take a look at one for sure, not so sure that i'd retrofit one. if it worked as well as the skyhook appears to, i'd order one with a new rig.

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[mr2mk1g 10]

It's an RW patented product. No one else can produce them unless they come up with a novel way of doing a similar thing... even then there could be issues.

Mr. Booth has indicated that he would open it up to other manufacturers in the future just as he has done with his previous inventions. His reason for not doing so straight away is that it he feels it is such a great product that he would hate to see it get a bad reputation by killing a couple of people due to poorly made or installed copies produced by other firms.

By keeping production and installation of the product in house he can ensure QC and compatibility so that it always works as it should. Then the product can then build up the reputation it deserves and people won't miss out on using simply because it got a reputation it didn't deserve.

Imagine if Airtec, in an effort to save costs, had farmed out the manufacture of US cypres units to a Mexican company for example. Say a couple of US skydivers go in because their shoddy Mexican cypres's didn't work right. Suddenly no one across the world want's a cypres irrespective of where it's made because the product as a whole got a bad reputation from these couple of incidents. So no one would wear a cypres... and everyone would be denied the use of a great product simply because of a short sighted marketing decision.

Mr. Booth has said that once the skyhook built up a proven track record and its status as a life saving item is unassailable he'll allow others to produce it under license... assuming things don't change in the mean time at least.

Until then you'll have to buy a vector.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Then why doesn't RW just manufacture them and sell them to individual jumpers?

[pilotdave 0]

Have you seen a skyhook installation up close? It's not just something that can be added on real quick. Each manufacturer will have to make modifications to their gear to implement it. And then test them just as thoroughly as RWS has.

Dave

[mr2mk1g 10]

They can't confirm and control compatability with the reserve system and don't want another rig's failure to be attributed to the skyhook.

My posts here are from my memory of Mr. Booth's post - his own words on the subject are on the forums somewhere.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Have you seen a skyhook installation up close? It's not just something that can be added on real quick. Each manufacturer will have to make modifications to their gear to implement it. And then test them just as thoroughly as RWS has.

Dave

Yes, I have and I don't think it's something a good Master Rigger couldn't install. However in searching Bill's posts on the Skyhook, it occurred to me why when I read this.

Quote

I can't sell the Skyhook to the user of another rig, because it's part of the reserve system, and the rig manufacturer would have to test, approve, and install it on their own gear. -Bill Boothe

Were it not for the TSO requirement, RW could likely have a Skyhook Certification Course for Master Riggers interested in installing Skyhooks on other rigs.

[billbooth 10]

I am just now firming up prices, and setting up a production line to install Skyhooks on Vector III's manufactured without them. It is actually quite a time consuming job, even on the rig the Skyhook was designed for. You have to add an RSL ring to the riser, build the Skyhook RSL lanyard, replace both the reserve and 3-ring housings, sew on a new reserve flap to attach the Skyhook to, shorten the reserve freebag bridle, and finally sew on the Skyhook itself. After the two tragic fatalities at the convention, the phones have been "ringing off the hook" with customers requesting this service, and I want to get Skyhooks on as many of my customers rigs as want them...as soon as possible. This conversion project was planned for 2006, but I now feel the need to speed things up a bit. I still have to find the people, and set up the line, but we are moving full speed ahead on the project.

This project should speed up the release of the Skyhook technology to other manufacturers, because with more Skyhooks out there, their reputation will grow faster. And as someone said above, I have to be sure the Skyhook's reputation is unassailable before I license it. I don't want what happened to the 3-ring (soft housings, reversed risers. etc.) to happen to the Skyhook.

[Gravitymaster 0]

Thanks, Bill. I know people appreciate your efforts. Any idea as to when the Skyhook will be available to other manufacturers?

[billbooth 10]

One project at a time, but I think sometime in 2006, I will license the Skyhook.

[MrBrant 0]

Can I send you my 1990 Talon for a retrofit?

[mdrejhon 8]

Will you also be able to support older rigs such as Vector 2?

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Have you seen a skyhook installation up close? It's not just something that can be added on real quick. Each manufacturer will have to make modifications to their gear to implement it. And then test them just as thoroughly as RWS has.

And get an FAA aproval for the addition to the TSO.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[dorbie 0]

I'd get a retrofit if one was available and I perceived it was engineered right and not just thrown together as a stopgap. If I knew then what I know now I may have chosen an RW rig. The devil's in the details and starting a skyhook retrofit with (for example) no collins lanyard, might be a bad idea (I don't know, but it's the sort of thing that crosses my mind when I contemplate a retrofit).

As for patents, AFAIK there is related prior art in some base jumping rigs (e.g. the Sorcerer from Vertigo (although hand deploying the reserve pilot disconnects the RSL)), and patents can be licensed. One key (& probably novel) thing about the skyhook is the cantilever hook for the main riser bridle connection and that seems like a critically important feature to release the main so the pilot chute can do it's job under all the circumstances it needs to. I'd bet dollars for donuts that's the magic ingredient other manufacturers would have to license unless they come up with an alternative system of automatically disconnecting the main when the reserve pilot chute wins the tug-o-war.

[sundevil777 102]

Quote

shorten the reserve freebag bridle

Why is it shorter?

You have previously said that an improved RSL shackle was in the works. Do you have an update on that?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billbooth 10]

1. Bridle Length

With the Skyhook, timing is everything. In a partial mal breakaway, the Skyhook must pull the main out of the container after the pilot chute is launched and "out of the way", but before the pilot chute begins to open and produce enough enough drag to release the Skyhook connection, like it would in a total malfunction situation. To make this equation work out with our particular pilot chute, we found that locating the Skyhook hardware 5 feet below the pilot chute, and 7 feet from the bag, gave the best results. Add these numbers up and you get 12 feet overall bridle length. "Standard freebag bridles are much longer.

2. Snap Shackle

The snap shackle is the "weak point" in the Skyhook (or any RSL) system. I am having an improved shackle manufactured right now. I have made some small but important changes that I feel will will reduce the chance of accidental shackle release.

[billbooth 10]

I started working on the Skyhook concept 20 years ago. Two reasons it took me so long is that a Skyhook without a Collins' Lanyard is just not a good idea...especially a hard as some canopies are opening nowadays. You certainly wouldn't want a premature release of one riser (from either breakage or mis-rigging) to pull your reserve bag right into your still partially connected main. No Collins' Lanyard - No Skyhook.

The other problem was total and/or horseshoe malfunctions. While it is easy to hook the main to the freebag bridle, it is very hard to make sure that connection is instantly and automatically broken in case of any type of reserve-first scenario (including, of course, AAD firing). I tried three separate times, and failed to solve this problem. The solution was the Skyhook "cam" which can not only sense force, but reacts totally differently depending on the DIRECTION from which the force is applied. This prevents accidental release when the pilot chute inflates, as it is being dragged away at the same time, and in the same direction, as the freebag. It also allows the Skyhook to release mid-deployment in the case of an attempted breakaway from a horseshoe malfunction, where the risers will initiate the reserve deployment, but cannot complete it because, for instance, your main pilot chute is wrapped around you foot. In this case, the moment the reserve pilot chute passes above the Skyhook attachment point, the cam senses that the risers can no longer continue the deployment (the pilot chute is applying the same force, but in a different direction), and releases the pilot chute to finish the job. A dimension change in the Skyhook cam of as little as 1/10 of an inch could cause a lock-up in certain scenarios. That's why we manufacture the part to 1/10,000 of an inch tolerance. A change of bridle length, or Skyhook placement on that bridle, can cause premature release during res[email]erve deployment. Luckily, the tolerance here is about a foot. The point here, is that although the Skyhook has worked flawlessly in the field for over two years now, it must be very carefully manufactured.

[riggerrob 643]

Good point about "prior art" in the BASE Socerer.
There is also prior art in the skydiving business.
A French company used to sell a rig called "Advance" that was available with a Sorcerer-like device that functioned similar to a Skyhook. Advance looked like a Javelin from arm's length, but it had no side flaps on the reserve. Fortunately, the reserve freebag is made of Cordura, so few casual users know the difference.
They displayed Javelin look-a-like and Vector look-a-like rigs at the 2005 PIA Symposium.