TSA Harassment---again

[3331 137]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/20/tsa.lawsuit/index.html

I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

[James.UWE 0]

Could he have not just said where the cash came from? If he wasn't breaking any law, what's the problem?

Or was he just being an awkward tosser?

What's the point in causing a scene when an honest answer would have prevented the TSA getting frustrated with him?

[headoverheels 334]

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Could he have not just said where the cash came from? If he wasn't breaking any law, what's the problem?

Or was he just being an awkward tosser?

What's the point in causing a scene when an honest answer would have prevented the TSA getting frustrated with him?

Because it is none of their business.

[jtnesbitt 0]

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What's the point in causing a scene when an honest answer would have prevented the TSA getting frustrated with him?

Sounds to me like he fully expected this incident to occur. Yes, this situation could have been avoided by simply answering the queation, but as someone already point out, he doesnt have to answer it.

My initial thought was that this guy was being stupid and should have just answered the question and saved the hassle. However, upon thinking about it, i am glad he made a scene. I wouldnt have thats for sure. I have had to put up witht he TSA over stepping their bounds on many flights but i do what they want typically cuz it's the fastest way to a resolution. People like this guy standing up means that I dont have to. Take that how you will, but i simply dont have time to be detained and question before a flight just to prove a point. I am glad this guy does.

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[DavidB 0]

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Could he have not just said where the cash came from? If he wasn't breaking any law, what's the problem?

Or was he just being an awkward tosser?

What's the point in causing a scene when an honest answer would have prevented the TSA getting frustrated with him?

The TSA's job is to attempt to protect the flying public from dangers to the aircraft, it's occupants, & it's operators, not investigate why someone has a sum of cash with them on a domestic flight, which BTW is completely legal.

Let's put this in a way most of us can relate to. You're boarding your flight, heading away to that boogie you've heard about for years & finally have the opportunity to attend. Your very new, very expensive rig is in your hands as carry-on. You stow your rig, take your seat, buckle up & continue reading the book in your pocket when a cabin attendant nervously approaches, followed discreetly by another. The CA then apologizes but demands that you surrender your rig & it be stowed in the baggage compartment, citing what you know is a BS reason. YOU know it's no different that carrying a tennis racket or fishing pole, but because someone recognized a parachute, someone in the flight crew is now convinced you're going to disable the plane somehow & parachute to safety for some nefarious reason. They refuse to listen to your assurances that you & it are harmless passengers who want to play elsewhere. Do you give up your rig to try to make things smooth for everyone else, or do you sit there because you KNOW they have no legal right to demand this?

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Bolas 5]

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Let's put this in a way most of us can relate to. You're boarding your flight, heading away to that boogie you've heard about for years & finally have the opportunity to attend. Your very new, very expensive rig is in your hands as carry-on. You stow your rig, take your seat, buckle up & continue reading the book in your pocket when a cabin attendant nervously approaches, followed discreetly by another. The CA then apologizes but demands that you surrender your rig & it be stowed in the baggage compartment, citing what you know is a BS reason. YOU know it's no different that carrying a tennis racket or fishing pole, but because someone recognized a parachute, someone in the flight crew is now convinced you're going to disable the plane somehow & parachute to safety for some nefarious reason. They refuse to listen to your assurances that you & it are harmless passengers who want to play elsewhere. Do you give up your rig to try to make things smooth for everyone else, or do you sit there because you KNOW they have no legal right to demand this?

I'd calmly tell them that they can take it if they are willing to be liable for it's full worth and give me that assurance in writing.
To avoid this though, I use a gear bag when I take my rig as carryon.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[diverdriver 7]

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Could he have not just said where the cash came from? If he wasn't breaking any law, what's the problem?

Or was he just being an awkward tosser?

What's the point in causing a scene when an honest answer would have prevented the TSA getting frustrated with him?

Because it is none of their business.

Because it can be one clue in questioning FOR safety. I guarantee the x-ray machine does not pick up on money. They saw a LARGE METAL box on the screen. Of course it will be questioned and will have to be opened. When the contents are viewed a natural next question is what do you need that much cash for? It is no secret that there are groups RIGHT NOW "gaming" the system to see what responses will be brought by certain actions. This guy was not a terrorist but evading questions only raises the red flags folks. The language used is wrong. But the questioning in my book was right. The face of terrorism or people wishing to do harm is not white, black, brown, Arab, Christian, Atheist, man, woman, etc. "They" only have to be right once to cause chaos. The "system" has to be right 100% to keep this industry going. It took 8 years between attacks on the WTC. 1993-2001. Guess what folks? 2001 + 8 = 2009. Bush didn't keep attacks away. It just takes that long to organize and FUND (IE CASH MONEY FOLKS) attacks.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[JohnMitchell 16]

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It just takes that long to organize and FUND (IE CASH MONEY FOLKS) attacks.

You gotta be kidding me if you think that was justification for harrassing this guy about the money he had. Was it to pay off the hijackers on that flight? The TSA is not the FBI, not the CIA or DEA, although I'm sure some of them think they are. They are security personnel. Unless I'm carrying a knife, gun or dangerous toenail clippers, they should not ask me a bunch of dumb questions about what all that money is for. This is still the United States, not some Socialist backwater.

[porpoishead 8]

the TSA guy was such a pussy...

I think he should of beat the snot out of guy..get him some real answers where all that dangerous money came from..maybe even take a little for himself

the fuck is the world coming to....security gaurds forget how to really threaten, intimidate, and interrogate don't the teach the fukstiks that anymore

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[diverdriver 7]

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It just takes that long to organize and FUND (IE CASH MONEY FOLKS) attacks.

You gotta be kidding me if you think that was justification for harrassing this guy about the money he had. Was it to pay off the hijackers on that flight? The TSA is not the FBI, not the CIA or DEA, although I'm sure some of them think they are. They are security personnel. Unless I'm carrying a knife, gun or dangerous toenail clippers, they should not ask me a bunch of dumb questions about what all that money is for. This is still the United States, not some Socialist backwater.

Security personel BORN of a well financed terrorist organization. It's a reasonable question. And really who is a security threat? When you show up I don't know who you are. But I and others in the airline industry are expected and morally obligated to try to pick that needle out of the haystack so you can continue to pay your 39 bucks for your ticket. Another hi-jacking happens I guarantee this industry will collapse and collapse hard not to mention the unknown toll of life in such an attack if succesful. Then you'll complain that "no one was watching. They're asleep at the switch." Again, I don't agree with the harsh ghestapo tone of the questioning. The TSA agent let his emotion get the better of him. But repeating a question to get an answer is not harassment in my book. Choose not to answer it. Fine. Ask for a supervisor. When I've been questioned about my lead vest and skydiving rig I was courteous. When the agent didn't seem to understand what I was saying and was going to deny me entry I asked for a supervisor. The supervisor cleared it up fast. I never said "do you have the right to ask me that?"

And really, do you want to answer questions about large sums of money in front of other passengers or would you rather answer that discreetly so you don't have some criminal targeting you because of opportunity? The whole "oh they took me to a room with no windows" cry of victim. Give me a break. That procedure is for the passenger's benefit too. Hell just the other day I carried a guy in full Hell's Angels outfit with a 1% patch. We get all kinds.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[billvon 3,109]

>I'd calmly tell them that they can take it if they are willing to be liable
>for it's full worth and give me that assurance in writing.

And they say "no."

What then?

[porpoishead 8]

so whats a reasonable or acceptable response in explanation for 4,700 bucks you think..

if the guy would of answered the question with "I was blowing cocks all night, it was kinda slow" and shrugged his shoulders would they have let him be on his way...

or do you question the guy until you hear what you want to hear..

sure some terrorist fuck isn't going to be forthcoming about his intentions with any sum of money


fuck it just ban money..or better yet just charge to carry it on say 10%

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[justinb138 0]

The FBI and DHS are the agencies responsible for investigating suspected terrorism - not the TSA.

At an airport the TSA is there to make sure that nothing that could cause harm to the passengers gets on the plane. I fail to see how a box with some cash in it is going to harm anyone.

[jonstark 8]

Steve,

Thanks for bringing this one up again. It deserves as much attention as the thug TSA assholes that pulled over the pilot in Long Beach, CA at gunpoint just because he had filed the proper clearances to EXIT the country.

Since when does a citizen of the US need to ask permission to leave? Since when does one need to tell anybody why they are carrying some cash or where it came from?

General aviation is under direct attack! The TSA is after us! We have no large or powerful lobby and they are acting on emotional catch phrases.

Tell me why the fuck Congress gets shut down when a Cessna 150 strays off course into the Washington ADIZ !? I've said it here before... General aviation is the tactical equivalent of a VW bug.

What if those TSA pukes started to pull over U-Haul vans on the highway. There might be another Timothy McVey out there. But NOOoo. There'd be too loud an outcry.

Don't wait for it folks. That is the kind of freedom they want... To be able to stop, detain, search, etc without due process or any suspicion just like they treat felons.

The guy with the cash was right-on. "Do I legally have to answer you?" NO!

jon

[porpoishead 8]

that's exactly the thing bud, they were investigating the money...

if money is a threat of some sort, they should just ban carrying on money and there would be no issue. then they can question whoever the fuck they want about a couple of bucks in a tin can all they want.

TSA just ask for stupid shit all the time...then they get all fucking bent when some fukstik starts questioning his rights or whatever...

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[diverdriver 7]

Ever think maybe it's not the answer of why the money is there it's how it's answered (or not answered in this case) that draws more attention? The money isn't the threat but a person who is evasive, nervous could be *that* person. Hell, didn't you guys read how a customer service agent helped a roomate bring a handgun past security? How were they caught? A passenger noticed the exchange of luggage on the other side of security AND the employee looked "nervous". Is there a law against looking nervous? If someone asks "are you nervous?" are you going to say "am I legally obligated to answer that?" Because this passenger reported to TSA an undeclared gun was pulled off a USAir flight. Then when they rescreened everyone guess what they found? A box cutter. TSA is not 100%. And there are people trying to game the system every day.

And with that, I think I'm done with this thread. Flame away.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[Bolas 5]

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>I'd calmly tell them that they can take it if they are willing to be liable
>for it's full worth and give me that assurance in writing.

And they say "no."

What then?

Then we'd try to come up with another compromise. I'd probably volunteer to leave the plane providing they were willing to compensate me (free flight, refund, etc.) for the inconvenience. This of course would also be verified before I left the plane.

I understand they have to deal with the passenger with irrational fears. But they need to understand that I'm not risking thousands of dollars of equipment because of it. Having just lost a canopy, I know how worthless insurance is.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Gawain 0]

The TSA really needs to condition its agents to avoid the "Cartman" attitude: "You will respect ma-authoitah!!"

Cash, in any amount, in any denomination, in any currency, does not pose an immediate danger to anyone.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Bolas 5]

This just shows yet another failure of the TSA. EVERYONE entering a security zone should be screened equally. If their job requires certain tools and/or weapons, verify they only have what they're permitted to.

TSA needs to do their job. If they think someone is truly a threat, turn them over to the properly trained authorities vs. attempting badly to interrogate them as they have no real authority to do so if the matter does not involve a restricted item or suspicion of a restricted item.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[porpoishead 8]

I'll buy that it's the guys response or lack of that got TSA all up in his shit...

but if money is not contraband then why question it is all...

it would be the same as asking some old lady why she has 17 pair of panty hose and some folded napkins inside a ziploc bag. she could answer "it's none of your business"

or you could tune the ole girl up in the back until she tells you she robbed 17 7-11's and wore a different pair of panties on her head every time and wiped the jam-o-matic .22 with the napkins so they have sentimental value......

for the most part your terrorist isn't going to be the half ass monkey boy knocking off the corner store with a stolen gun for crack money type of criminal.....you won't be cracking the case with "where did you get that fucking money"

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[JohnMitchell 16]

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And really, do you want to answer questions about large sums of money in front of other passengers or would you rather answer that discreetly so you don't have some criminal targeting you because of opportunity?

Give it up. $$$ in your carry on are not a weapon to hijack an airliner. A rolled up goddamn newspaper is a lot more lethal. What's he gonna do, pay the guy next to him to jack the plane?

I can understand that in your profession you want to give the TSA guys a lot of leeway. But they don't need to play supercop and stick their noses into non-security issues.

[justinb138 0]

I'm trying to imagine the same situation, except that when the TSA opens the box they find a couple of vibrators & other sex toys.

Would they be justified in grilling the guy about why he had them?

Would his response then be unreasonable?

I don't see why some would think it's OK to question him about one but not the other.

I mean, it'd be one thing if the guy had $2 million in cash hidden in the suitcase, but we're talking about $4,700 in a cash box. Even if it were the TSA's job to investigate money laundering or drug activity, this shouldn't even be a blip on the radar for either one.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I'm trying to imagine the same situation, except that when the TSA opens the box they find a couple of vibrators & other sex toys.

One time taking our rigs through the X-ray machine, Vskydiver and I had the TSA guys winking at each other and laughing about what they called jokingly our "exercise equipment."

I think they saw harnesses and buckles an assumed we were on our way to a bondage convention. I didn't try to correct them, I just said "Yep, it's exercise equipment."

[headoverheels 334]

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... When the contents are viewed a natural next question is what do you need that much cash for? ...

Personally, I don't view that as an especially large amount of cash. More than I would carry without some reason, but not exactly a huge amount -- only a couple of days' pay for lots of people.

[Baksteen 84]

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Ever think maybe it's not the answer of why the money is there it's how it's answered (or not answered in this case) that draws more attention?

It's also very convenient that the guy happened to have his I-phone on standby in his pocket, which after coincidental activation started to record the conversation.
Mind you, I don't have an I-phone and don't know how easy it is to access the record funtion without even once looking at the display.
Nevertheless, I'm thinking that our esteemed 'victim' in this case is actually a provocateur.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom