npgraphicdesign 3 #1 July 28, 2009 So here's something that came up recently in my life. I was dating a woman that was slightly older then myself with an older daughter. She had a good steady job, and even though her daughter (who is in HS) shared an apartment with her, she still made good money...probably more than I did. We dated for about 3 months, and during that time, I paid for all our outings, activities, dates, etc. Anything from a coffee at Starbucks to a musical. Ordinarily I am totally fine with it. But, in all of my past relationships, I've never dated anyone who has never offered to pay for something, or split the bill..or someone who simply said thank you every time, which was enough. This woman insisted that I pay for everything, even though she knew that I have student loans hanging over me, even though she knew that I don't make much, and even with her apt, daughter, etc, she was still making more than me...and it was hard to hear a simple 'thank you' from her. One time I even semi-jokingly suggested (to see how she'd react) that I buy tickets to a museum exhibition, and she can buy dinner..her response? "Now you know that the man should always pay for everything" Long story short, I broke it off. Not just for that reason, since there were a few other reasons. Still, that 'trait' of hers really bugged me...especially a few weeks ago, when we (we were still friends at that point) went to a dance class, and I had no cash, so i asked her to pay for me, saying I'd get her next time. She did with no problems. Next week however, when I went to dance class, i gave her a twenty and said "i'll owe you four dollars, as I have no singles" She proceed to tell me (jokingly) that I'm greedy. I was ready to strangle her for that comment, but simply said goodbye, turned around and left. Did I overreact, or was my reaction that 'strong' due to my previous experience with her when we dated? Btw since then, she sent me one email asking if i was ok. I responded with 'yes everything is fine' and haven't emailed her since. She hasn't emailed either, and didn't show up to class last week. (Also, I need to add that she's of Slavic descent and has only been here for a few years. I'm of Slavic descent as well, and I've been here for almost 2 decades. In most Slavic cultures, it is customary for the man to pay 100%, and I think that was still her mindset.) And, what rules do you follow? Who pays when, for how long, for whom, etc? And is it customary to say thank you in your relationships? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 July 28, 2009 I have no comment on this subject! Very dangerous can of worms you've opened here. Be careful, there are spies everywhere.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #3 July 28, 2009 Quote I have no comment on this subject! Very dangerous can of worms you've opened here. Be careful, there are spies everywhere. I'm just sayin... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #4 July 28, 2009 Maybe there really ought to be a "Guys Only Forum" to protect just this one topic!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scratch 0 #5 July 28, 2009 Warning!!!!! DO NOT TOUCH Surface may be HOT Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #6 July 28, 2009 Quote And, what rules do you follow? Who pays when, for how long, for whom, etc? And is it customary to say thank you in your relationships? There was a time when women were chattel, property didn't pay for dinner, and a loving father would expect some evidence that a suitor was likely to continue paying for his vessel. That time has passed among enlightened people. There are two reasonable situations: 1. The relationship is a partnership, with costs split fairly. Maybe it's 50/50 or every other date for like career stage and obligations. Maybe there is economic asymmetry so the parties treat according to their means, with one springing for fine dining while the other one cooks or buys tacos. Maybe one person buys more when the other is unemployed. There's some reasonable effort to share. 2. The relationship is prostitution, with the party getting sex they otherwise wouldn't paying for dinner and non-sex entertainment which is legal and less frowned upon in more places than a straight cash transaction. In both cases common courtesy would be expected with thanks given. It's nice to be appreciated. It goes on until the situation changes, with a happy "ending" being a set of joint bank accounts for "our" money one of which is designated for incidental expenses. There's one unreasonable situation: Some one is mooching because they can. I have acquaintances who'll take whatever they can get while giving as little as they can. While I don't fault them for their logical actions, I don't associate with them more than necessary. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheach 0 #7 July 28, 2009 I just crawled out of my hole just to post on this topic. I hate the assumption that men should pay for everything. I am a woman by the way. I find it offensive. As in I shouldn't be working, or don't make as much as a man does. I'm not a big 50/50 split person though either. It makes it seem like a business deal. I like the "I will pay for dinner, you pay for the movie." Or "You got it last time, let me get it." Guys, stand up for yourself early...or the girl will always expect it! This goes for average people. Filthy rich guys dating young hot chicks...you pay.I woke up next to a blowup doll Ash....so what do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlympiaStoica 0 #8 July 28, 2009 Just the fact that you guys find this subject to be a “hot potato” is offensive to me. It is the 21st century – what’s so controversial about it??? I find the behavior of your ex-date repulsive … it is bitches (yes, I said that) like her that give the rest of us a bad name. I have a strong opinion on this subject … I’ll try to take a breath before I post any further. I don’t fit the bill of a feminist in too many aspects, but I’ve always advocated equality. Well … if we want to be equal to men, how fucking hypocrite is it when we want to keep some of the 1950s customs? What is this? Selective equality? I always pay for my dinner, my drinks, my everything. Hell … I was in a relationship (i.e. married) and I paid for my own birthday gifts. I make decent money (six figure range), but he makes five times as much, so it wasn’t a matter of who can afford it. I take pride in being able to afford things myself … and act accordingly. This is not to say that if a man wants to treat me well and paying for dinner is the only way he knows how to do it, I will make a scene out of it … but I always offer to pay my half. If he gets the bill, I make sure I pay next time … or buy drinks … or bring it back to an equal footing, somehow. Btw, the opposite happens too. I’ve been in one relationship where I ended up paying for stuff (for the both of us) quite often. That wasn’t cool either … O Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #9 July 28, 2009 Quote Btw, the opposite happens too. I’ve been in one relationship where I ended up paying for stuff (for the both of us) quite often. That wasn’t cool either … O Yea...it's not good regardless of who's on the receiving end. I've seen situations where a guy mooches off the girl...equally as bad. And I don't find this subject touchy...hence the reason for posting it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlympiaStoica 0 #10 July 28, 2009 Wow ... people really do think this is a "dangerous" subject ... Considering this is a skydiving forum, lots of wimps (i.e. pussies ) on here ... O Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #11 July 28, 2009 Quote Wow ... people really do think this is a "dangerous" subject ... Considering this is a skydiving forum, lots of wimps (i.e. pussies ) on here ... O Apparently skyidvers are wimps. They'll jump out of a plan with a wad of nylon in their backback, but they won't talk about relationships. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #12 July 28, 2009 i think women should pay; they're the ones that get the "tip" at the end of the night.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #13 July 28, 2009 If it has to be ME vs THEM, then the wimpiest sucker involved in the relationship pays....and pays...and pays....and pays....My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #14 July 28, 2009 I always try to pick up some portion of the bill. Whether it is beer, tip, or even the whole amount if needed. That is if the guy allows me to. Some men are insulted if you offer or pay for anything.TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlympiaStoica 0 #15 July 28, 2009 Quote i think women should pay; they're the ones that get the "tip" at the end of the night.. Just the "tip"? You continue to disappoint me VB ... you loosing your edge ... or somethin' ... O Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
npgraphicdesign 3 #16 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote i think women should pay; they're the ones that get the "tip" at the end of the night.. Just the "tip"? You continue to disappoint me VB ... you loosing your edge ... or somethin' ... O Apparently he's not a big tipper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #17 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote i think women should pay; they're the ones that get the "tip" at the end of the night.. Just the "tip"? You continue to disappoint me VB ... you loosing your edge ... or somethin' ... O isnt it you that says its "too big"!? and i dont want to break ANOTHER girl/heart.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #18 July 28, 2009 Quote Quote Quote i think women should pay; they're the ones that get the "tip" at the end of the night.. Just the "tip"? You continue to disappoint me VB ... you loosing your edge ... or somethin' ... O Apparently he's not a big tipper. have you ever been to the zoo!? then you're right.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #19 July 28, 2009 Quote Wow ... people really do think this is a "dangerous" subject ... Considering this is a skydiving forum, lots of wimps (i.e. pussies ) on here ... Perhaps people aren't awake yet... I think if both the man and woman are making money... then they should split up who pays... having said that... there are awkward and not so awkward ways of going about spliting the expenses... having one person paying for dinner one night then having the next person get it the next time... or one person buying movie tickets while the other person gets dinner... and when a couple is "adding up" who pays (has paid) more or less then the other then the focus in the relationship is on the wrong things... One thing I find entertaining is when we go out to dinner with my parents... my dad usually pays for dinner and I almost never protest... because although he and I understand that both of us can easily afford to pay for dinner he is the senior male an gets the option to buy his son dinner if he wants to... I won't protest... I am however happy to pick up the check if he's not fast enough to collect it and there are times that we've split the check... but we've never had trouble figuring out how to do it without even needing to speak up... it just comes naturally...Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #20 July 28, 2009 Quoteshe's of Slavic descent and has only been here for a few years In most Slavic cultures, it is customary for the man to pay 100%, and I think that was still her mindset.) I hate to derail this thread from talking about everyone's 'tip' but.... If she has a daughter of high shcool age, then the woman has got to be in her 30's, so she lived for 30-some years in one culture, and is a dating a man from the same culture, and you're surprised that she's adhering to the norms of that culture? If she's only been in this counrty a short time, you have to wonder, how many men has she dated, and how might she have been exposed to the idea that sometimes it's a two-way street? Additionally, is the man paying a point of pride or manliness in her home country? If it is, than she might have been respecting you by letting you pick up the tab. With this in mind, I'd look at the kind of money you laid out, and how she approached it. If she never suggested any high-priced activities, and ordered modestly priced items from the menu, she might have just been doing what she was riased to do. If she always got the lobster, and expected you to lay out some big green every time you went out, and was after expensive gifts, then she might be a gold digging whore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #21 July 28, 2009 When dating...who pays? Oh! Come on people, this is an easy one. The least attractive and most desperate always pays!!! Why do you think I’m always broke? Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slcooper 0 #22 July 28, 2009 Quote When dating...who pays? Oh! Come on people, this is an easy one. The least attractive and most desperate always pays!!! Why do you think I’m always broke? Best answer so far. Seriously though, I would let her go. Look for warning signs, give it two tries, if the shit doesn't work for you, cut away and get something that does! Thankfully in life there are many "reserves" to choose from. Why would anyone jump out of a perfectly good airplane? Cause the door was open! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #23 July 28, 2009 I think in a first date, even first few dates situation, the person who asked the other person out pays. When you are actually dating or in a relationship, its a little different. If I go to the movies with my SO, he might buy the tickets and I'll buy the snacks. If he picks up the tab at a restaurant, I leave the tip or vice versa. If I spring for theatre tickets, he gets dinner. If I want to go someplace special, I pay. If he wants to take me to the auto show- he pays. That's how it should work, IMO, especially when both people are working and there isn't a huge difference in their incomes. I think even if I was dating a millionaire, I wouldn't let him pay for everything all the time. Honestly, I think you let the behavior continue for too long. If she's never reaching for her wallet and never even saying "Thank You", that's just not acceptable, I don't care where she is from. She won't spring for coffee, a few beers, popcorn at the movies, a tip? That's ridiculous! One way to put a stop to it is to stop taking her to places or events you really can't afford. Take her to the $3.00 movie theatre with the 2nd run shows, a taco stand instead of a steak house, that kind of thing. If she questions it, let her know you need to watch your spending. She'll either be OK with the less expensive dates, start pitching in if she wants to go someplace nicer, or dump you. All of that is better than you feeling used and taken advantage of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #24 July 28, 2009 If you make arangements, the escort company will provide her an expense account to play with and even pick up your tab - they will just add it to your over all bill at the end. I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
incendium 0 #25 July 28, 2009 That's an easy one.....the one with the mostest....Actually it should be split aka Going Dutch. These are modern times when woman are equals to men, treat them as such until you find out otherwise.... some people might be offended that you pay for everything but might not know how to tell you that, especially if they really are into you.... v/r Paul "Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level and beat you!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
