shall555 0 #1 July 21, 2005 The (very) used rig I recently bought has a Paraflite Cirrus reserve in it. I'm sure it's fine , but I'm the kind of sick individual that really likes to know the details. I checked Paraflite's site, and the canopy is not listed anywhere there that I could find. Can anyone tell me something about 'em ? I'd like to hear anything from "Great reserve.. worked for me! " to "OMG, get rid of that.. " or whatever. Technical specs would be greatly appreciated. thanks, shall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #2 July 21, 2005 It is a 5 cell, 230 sq ft I believe. It is very square. As in the chord and span are nearly identical. It is very stable. Not very fast. It was marketed as the big boy alternative to the original Swift 5 cell which was much smaller. It was discontinued as they came out with the Swift Plus in larger sizes. At your wingloading, it will be good for you and be a conversation starter if you use it. ParaFlite got out of the civilian market many years ago. They no longer have any sport canopy info on their website. How old is it? I hope it was real cheap.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 9 #3 July 21, 2005 If you go to: http://www.parachuteriggers.com/packing%20instructions.htm ... there is a link that looks like it should take you to the packing instructions for the Cirrus, but the link is broken. Maybe you could contact Paraflite directly at: PARA-FLITE INCORPORATED 5800 Magnolia Avenue Pennsauken New Jersey 08109-1399 USA Telephone (856) 663 -1275 ... and see what they'll tell you or if they'll send you an ower's / packing manual. Some of the old "grey haired" master riggers here on the board may chime in. There is a link on Paraflite's website under the Reference Library, Service Bulletins section that says "Swift Reserve Recall Notice", but I cannot get that link to open either... may be a problem with my machine... anyway, I'b be currious to hear what that says. I packed an original Swift Reserve with the "fly away" break lines while going through Rigger Training... it was interesting. Dunno if the Cirrus is configured the same way or not... maybe you do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #4 July 21, 2005 The swift recall was only for the 5 cell swift, not the cirrus. It was some sort of problem with the airfoil profile or line spec that made it have a very poor flare. I don't think it has the extra brake-setting lines.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ryoder 1,590 #5 July 21, 2005 PN 835000 5 cell spanwise construction 231 sf, (PIA 230-237 sf) span 21.5' chord 10.75' AR 2.0:1 wt 7.0-7.5 lbs volume 443-503 ci max suspended wt 220 lbs TSO-C23b Introduced Nov 1982 fabric F-111 lines 400 lb Dacron or 600 lb Spectra Brake loops are modern "cat's eye" type."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #6 July 21, 2005 At first is was sold as a main. Using spanwise construction, Paraflite acheived the same aspect ration as the strato cloud only using 5 cells. It flew in the air almost identical to one of the most popular canopies of the day the Pegasus (which morfed into the Fury). One problem was with the bigger cells it was real "poofy" and looked much like the Michilan man. The main had a VERY BAD reputation for being unlandable. I didn't find that to be true. But, you had to pay very close attention to the flare and fly the canopy all the way through the landing. I had only two jumps that weren't stand ups, and those were my fault screwing around with too low of turns. BTW my loading was about 0.8. But it was short lived on the market as a main because of these problems. I had one customer in about 1995 that wanted me to pack one and I refused. Mainly because there are much better and not very expensive reserve out there. For instance a Swift Plus (7 cell) goes for 2 to 300 dollars often. As well as this reserve is not likely pretty old. They made them for a number of years but if it's early it may well be 20 years old now. There are many rigger who choose not to work on gear that old. For age and age of design I probably wouldn't. I'd look for something that was the next step, like a Super Raven. edit, Like this in the classifieds. For Sale: Swift Plus 225 good condition never deployed Price: 375 USD Shipping: Buyer Pays Shipping Swift Plus 225 sq ft. good condition, never deployed , DOM May 93, color Blue , serial # R7-2583.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shall555 0 #7 July 21, 2005 Thanks for all the great info, you guys. I'll probably move up my planned purchase of a newer, state-of-the art reserve. shall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,454 #8 July 21, 2005 Wasn't the main known as a DC-5? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #9 July 22, 2005 QuoteWasn't the main known as a DC-5? No, the DC-5 was a different, larger version of the Cirrus Cloud main. Don't have any references here but probably about 260. It was spanwise and 5 cell also. For the younsters, the maximum cell width with the standard construction techniques waa limited by the width of the fabric available. So a 7 cell main could be only so wide. A nine cell allowed a wider canopy, higher aspect ration with same square footage and better performance. The spanwise construction consisted of the top and bottom skin being sewn with the fabric running side to side rather front to back (so do the colors as a result). Then the cell walls were sewn in whereever the desidner wanted. The thought was that 5 cells on the same dimension canopy as the 7 cell version would work and lower pack volume. It kinda did. But now we know that a smoother airfoil is better, especially with ZP. Hence the 21 cell, tribraced, etc. which started with the Nimbus made in F-111 type fabric.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #10 July 22, 2005 Too few ribs is not a big deal as long as you keep wing-loading light. I have jumped DC-5s enough times to conclude that half their problems are that they were designed as accuracy canopies (to compete with Para-Foils and Eiffs) but people are surprised when they don't flare like Mantas. Doh! I hate to nit-pick, but the first cross-braced canopy was the Excalibur, built by Performance Designs in the late 1980s. Excaliburs flew great when new, but their F-111 fabric did not fly well after 300 jumps. The next step was ZP fabric. When Icarus (NZ) combined cross-braced construction with ZP fabric, circa 1983, they came up with a winner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #11 July 22, 2005 Rob, I knew Nimbus wasn't right when I wrote it but I couldn't remember (never can) the name Excalibur. Hmm, did that start the sword names?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #12 July 22, 2005 Swords or airplanes? I've heard both out of various PD reps.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pms07 3 #13 July 23, 2005 QuoteThe swift recall was only for the 5 cell swift, not the cirrus. It was some sort of problem with the airfoil profile or line spec that made it have a very poor flare. I don't think it has the extra brake-setting lines. Correct...the Swift recall was for a specific range of serial numbers on the original swift reserve only. It was none of the above causes...rather a manufacturing error that was not identifiable by comparing with a good canopy or checking line length and trim. I discovered the symptoms of the problem on a reserve ride in Colorado and was lucky to survive it. The canopy was almost uncontrollable and stalled without warning or with minimal toggle input. That particular reserve belonged to Sandy Reid/R.I. (it was also the first actual reserve use other than test jumps on a Talon) and after consulting with Sandy and ParaFLite (Elek Puskas) we set it up as a main to jump it again. Same shit, different day...sent it back to ParaFlite and a bit later came the recall. Apparently there were a couple of similar incidents that helped identify the problem around the same timeframe. Anyway, kind of scary to look up at your reserve, release the brakes and go to full flight, only to have the canopy stall with the toggles in the keepers... pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #14 July 23, 2005 The recall on the original 5-cell Swifts was caused by some ribs cut to the wrong curvature. The cure involved removing the top leading edge, re-cutting the ribs and sewing it back together. This could only be done at Pra-Flite's factory in New Jersey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
sundevil777 102 #4 July 21, 2005 The swift recall was only for the 5 cell swift, not the cirrus. It was some sort of problem with the airfoil profile or line spec that made it have a very poor flare. I don't think it has the extra brake-setting lines.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,590 #5 July 21, 2005 PN 835000 5 cell spanwise construction 231 sf, (PIA 230-237 sf) span 21.5' chord 10.75' AR 2.0:1 wt 7.0-7.5 lbs volume 443-503 ci max suspended wt 220 lbs TSO-C23b Introduced Nov 1982 fabric F-111 lines 400 lb Dacron or 600 lb Spectra Brake loops are modern "cat's eye" type."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #6 July 21, 2005 At first is was sold as a main. Using spanwise construction, Paraflite acheived the same aspect ration as the strato cloud only using 5 cells. It flew in the air almost identical to one of the most popular canopies of the day the Pegasus (which morfed into the Fury). One problem was with the bigger cells it was real "poofy" and looked much like the Michilan man. The main had a VERY BAD reputation for being unlandable. I didn't find that to be true. But, you had to pay very close attention to the flare and fly the canopy all the way through the landing. I had only two jumps that weren't stand ups, and those were my fault screwing around with too low of turns. BTW my loading was about 0.8. But it was short lived on the market as a main because of these problems. I had one customer in about 1995 that wanted me to pack one and I refused. Mainly because there are much better and not very expensive reserve out there. For instance a Swift Plus (7 cell) goes for 2 to 300 dollars often. As well as this reserve is not likely pretty old. They made them for a number of years but if it's early it may well be 20 years old now. There are many rigger who choose not to work on gear that old. For age and age of design I probably wouldn't. I'd look for something that was the next step, like a Super Raven. edit, Like this in the classifieds. For Sale: Swift Plus 225 good condition never deployed Price: 375 USD Shipping: Buyer Pays Shipping Swift Plus 225 sq ft. good condition, never deployed , DOM May 93, color Blue , serial # R7-2583.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shall555 0 #7 July 21, 2005 Thanks for all the great info, you guys. I'll probably move up my planned purchase of a newer, state-of-the art reserve. shall Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,454 #8 July 21, 2005 Wasn't the main known as a DC-5? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #9 July 22, 2005 QuoteWasn't the main known as a DC-5? No, the DC-5 was a different, larger version of the Cirrus Cloud main. Don't have any references here but probably about 260. It was spanwise and 5 cell also. For the younsters, the maximum cell width with the standard construction techniques waa limited by the width of the fabric available. So a 7 cell main could be only so wide. A nine cell allowed a wider canopy, higher aspect ration with same square footage and better performance. The spanwise construction consisted of the top and bottom skin being sewn with the fabric running side to side rather front to back (so do the colors as a result). Then the cell walls were sewn in whereever the desidner wanted. The thought was that 5 cells on the same dimension canopy as the 7 cell version would work and lower pack volume. It kinda did. But now we know that a smoother airfoil is better, especially with ZP. Hence the 21 cell, tribraced, etc. which started with the Nimbus made in F-111 type fabric.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 July 22, 2005 Too few ribs is not a big deal as long as you keep wing-loading light. I have jumped DC-5s enough times to conclude that half their problems are that they were designed as accuracy canopies (to compete with Para-Foils and Eiffs) but people are surprised when they don't flare like Mantas. Doh! I hate to nit-pick, but the first cross-braced canopy was the Excalibur, built by Performance Designs in the late 1980s. Excaliburs flew great when new, but their F-111 fabric did not fly well after 300 jumps. The next step was ZP fabric. When Icarus (NZ) combined cross-braced construction with ZP fabric, circa 1983, they came up with a winner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 July 22, 2005 Rob, I knew Nimbus wasn't right when I wrote it but I couldn't remember (never can) the name Excalibur. Hmm, did that start the sword names?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 July 22, 2005 Swords or airplanes? I've heard both out of various PD reps.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #13 July 23, 2005 QuoteThe swift recall was only for the 5 cell swift, not the cirrus. It was some sort of problem with the airfoil profile or line spec that made it have a very poor flare. I don't think it has the extra brake-setting lines. Correct...the Swift recall was for a specific range of serial numbers on the original swift reserve only. It was none of the above causes...rather a manufacturing error that was not identifiable by comparing with a good canopy or checking line length and trim. I discovered the symptoms of the problem on a reserve ride in Colorado and was lucky to survive it. The canopy was almost uncontrollable and stalled without warning or with minimal toggle input. That particular reserve belonged to Sandy Reid/R.I. (it was also the first actual reserve use other than test jumps on a Talon) and after consulting with Sandy and ParaFLite (Elek Puskas) we set it up as a main to jump it again. Same shit, different day...sent it back to ParaFlite and a bit later came the recall. Apparently there were a couple of similar incidents that helped identify the problem around the same timeframe. Anyway, kind of scary to look up at your reserve, release the brakes and go to full flight, only to have the canopy stall with the toggles in the keepers... pms Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #14 July 23, 2005 The recall on the original 5-cell Swifts was caused by some ribs cut to the wrong curvature. The cure involved removing the top leading edge, re-cutting the ribs and sewing it back together. This could only be done at Pra-Flite's factory in New Jersey. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
