Riggers Only Poll - Patches

[bluewaterstream 0]

I'm planning on selling my rig and wanted to see how some of you riggers out there would view this situation. The main (Tri 190) has an extremely small hole on the top skin (center cell) of the canopy (the hole is less than half a square). My rigger advised me that it was still OK to jump and suggested that I keep an eye on it. I've kept a very close eye on it for my last 20 jumps and its condition has stayed the same, just as he predicted. We talked about this before I decided to sell my rig. Because I'm OK with jumping it like this, does that make it OK to sell it like this? What do you think? When selling a canopy, should all holes be patched no matter what size and/or location? (note: I plan on mentioning the hole to anyone that's interested in buying my rig, no matter what the results of this poll are. Seems unethical to withhold information like this.)

My understanding is that only holes that are larger than one square require a patch. The theory being that the multiple needle holes required to attach a patch would actually be more damaging to the canopy than a small 1/2 square hole. Is this true for both the top and bottom skin? I'm assuming that the bottom skin would get hit harder during deployment, which would probably cause a similar sized hole on the bottom skin to increase in size within a jump or two.

Anyway, my rigger knows his shit and I feel confident that I am not selling a dangerous canopy (obviously, I'm still jumping it). As far as selling used gear is concerned, I would like to see how a large group of riggers view selling a main with a small hole.

Thanks,

John

[Samurai136 0]

If I was inspecting it for a buyer I would point it out as a sign of wear possibly lowering the resale value of the parachute. The question is do you want a tiny hole that hasn't changed in 20 plus jumps or something like a 1" patch?

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[freeflygirlz 0]

To me this depends on how many jumps the canopy has.
For me it seems OK if a canopy with a few hundrets of jumps has a little damage. But I would be annoyed if I buy a nearly new canopy (less than 100 jumps) and it has a hole you haven't told me about.
If the canopy is a little bit older this is just normal, don't care about it. If its rather new, tell the customer, but it should not be a problem.
Do not patch it! No need for that!

[bluewaterstream 0]

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To me this depends on how many jumps the canopy has.

360+ jumps

[sunshine 2]

No need for patching a hole that small. Just inform the buyer. I currently have a hole in my canopy that is too small to patch, so i just keep an eye on it.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[tombuch 0]

Without seeing the hole, I would assume it is just a small snag, and not a big deal. However, if you know about damage you should tell the buyer...that's an ethical position that applies to anything you are selling.

My hunch is that a buyer won't care. As long as he knows about it, he will have the choice to ignore the hole, add a patch, or throw on a bit of duct tape.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[masterrig 1]

I would most certainly tell any potential buyer(s) and inform them what you have learned here. Tell them to keep an eye on it. If it gets worse... get it patched.


Chuck

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

Without seeing the damage myself, I really cannot 100% say its not a big deal, but if its as small as you say, its probably not a big deal... I have a couple like that on my main, one I threw a piece of rip-stop over on the inside of the canopy and sewed the rip-stop down.

If you do sell the canopy, you should tell the prosepctive buyer about it... OR.. have a rigger patch it before you sell it. That is the right thing to do.

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[Hooknswoop 19]

Duct tape is bad because it attracts dirts/sand, etc which damages the fabric. Rip stop tape also attracts dirt, but worse, the adhesive is acidic and will destroy the canopy fabric over time.

Derek

[masterrig 1]

I've had to re-patch where someone had sewn rip-stop tape as a patch. The tape was so brittle as well as the material immediately outside the tape, it was cracking at the edge of the tape. Bad ju-ju!


Chuck

[linestretch 0]

same here, but had to do both the top skin that was taped, and the bottom skin that was touching the taped hole when packed up. It basically ate an area of fabric the same exact size of the tape patch.

my pics & stuff!

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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Duct tape is bad because it attracts dirts/sand, etc which damages the fabric. Rip stop tape also attracts dirt, but worse, the adhesive is acidic and will destroy the canopy fabric over time.

Derek

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I've had to re-patch where someone had sewn rip-stop tape as a patch. The tape was so brittle as well as the material immediately outside the tape, it was cracking at the edge of the tape. Bad ju-ju!


Chuck

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same here, but had to do both the top skin that was taped, and the bottom skin that was touching the taped hole when packed up. It basically ate an area of fabric the same exact size of the tape patch.

*sigh*

[masterrig 1]

*sigh*

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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*sigh*

__________________________

The perils of rip-stop tape! That's fine! Keeps us riggers busy!


Chuck

[Hooknswoop 19]

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No arguement on the long term affects of putting Rip-Stop tape on your canopy... however, its not like your canopy is going to explode moments after putting Rip-Stop & some stitching on it vice doing a Simple Patch (French Fell) or better yet lets go back to Navy Patches...

No, but either way it will have to be patched and if rip-stop tape is used, the final patch is going to be much bigger. Might as well do it right the first time around.

Derek

[masterrig 1]

lets go back to Navy Patches...

[ZigZagMarquis 9]

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lets go back to Navy Patches...

_______________________________

No thank you!I can see, using rip-stop tape to get one through the week-end but not sewing it on as a 'permanent' fix. I found that very thing on a reserve once.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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lets go back to Navy Patches...

_______________________________

No thank you!I can see, using rip-stop tape to get one through the week-end but not sewing it on as a 'permanent' fix. I found that very thing on a reserve once.


Chuck

... well, lets not mix apples and oranges... mains and reserves here... agreed, rip-stop on a reserve is BAD! I once refused to pack a guys rig after opening it and finding rip-stop on his reserve pilot chute...

[skyange1 0]

It has been my experience that you would mark the hole by drawing a circle around it with a laundry marker (so it wont come off) This will make it easier to find, as well as show you if it is getting bigger or not. My2cents. CB

[brettpobastad 0]

Duct tape is bad for another, more important reason. The glue seeps from around the edges and will contact and contaminate other canopy surfaces.

I do not agree on most views concerning sticky back ripstop nylon tape. On smaller tears or burns, I will use sticky back tape and sew around the perimeter of the patch. It's easily strong enough (perhaps stronger than a 'by the book' patch) It's quick and easy. It's cost effective. It is true that the glue may degrade the underlaying material over time, however, that should not be a concern because that same material would be removed when (or if) a permanent patch was applied. I have never had a problem with this type of patch.

Patching a reserve canopy is a different story.

"It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

[riggerrob 643]

I only use sewn, sticky ripstop tape to patch drogues.

Reserves only get sewn, french-folded patches.

[brettpobastad 0]

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I only use sewn, sticky ripstop tape to patch drogues.

Reserves only get sewn, french-folded patches.

RR

Withya on the reserve patch. What's your beef with a sewn, sticky ripstop tape patch?

Brett

"It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

[Hooknswoop 19]

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What's your beef with a sewn, sticky ripstop tape patch?

If you are going to sew on rip stop, why not just sew a patch? It'll be a smaller patch and less work since you only have to fix it once.

Derek

[brettpobastad 0]

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If you are going to sew on rip stop, why not just sew a patch? It'll be a smaller patch and less work since you only have to fix it once.

When I sew on a ripstop patch, that is the permanent patch. On a main parachute, there's nothing wrong with this type of fix for small tear or burn holes. And besides, if you do a 'permanent, poindexter manual' patch the right way. It should take you a wholre hellava lot longer and it should be quite a bit bigger than i ripstop tape patch. The only drawback to this method is that you don't make as much money.

But why am I talking to you?

"It's only arrogance if you can't back it up"

[Hooknswoop 19]

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When I sew on a ripstop patch, that is the permanent patch. On a main parachute, there's nothing wrong with this type of fix for small tear or burn holes.

There is something wrong, the adhesive is acidic and attracts dirst/sand etc. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. A patch doesn't take me very long to do and is clean, permanant fix. I guess our standards are just different. To each their own.
Derek