NW Pilots lost License.....

[BillyVance 35]

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The last I heard, they weren't sleeping . . . they were playing on their laptops.

That's their story, and they're sticking to it.

Yeah, and they were probably having a 3 way gay orgy that they were too ashamed to admit to.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Jbag 0]

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/27/airliner.fly.by/index.html

The pilots are now saying that they were on their laptops looking at and discussing company policies. While being out of contact with ATC for 90 minutes. Amazing. And yeah, neither of these guys should ever fly with passengers again.

i think your figures are a bit wrong, they traveled 150mi...if it was 90min passed there destination, they would probalby be close to out of fuel if not run out by then and be traveling at....approx. 115mph+-20mph

IHYD

[BillyVance 35]

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http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/27/airliner.fly.by/index.html

The pilots are now saying that they were on their laptops looking at and discussing company policies. While being out of contact with ATC for 90 minutes. Amazing. And yeah, neither of these guys should ever fly with passengers again.

i think your figures are a bit wrong, they traveled 150mi...if it was 90min passed there destination, they would probalby be close to out of fuel if not run out by then and be traveling at....approx. 115mph+-20mph

They were out of contact with ATC for 90 minutes, beginning well before they reached Minneapolis. They were just 5 minutes from passing over their destination when the flight attendants knocked on the cockpit door to get their attention, that is, IIRC.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[jumpwally 0]

Yeah, i agree,,my wife is a FA with one of the airlines and routinely comes home with horror stories,, i'm sure your wife has some wild front office stories as well...

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[rwieder 0]

What I don't understand is why the auto-pilot system didn't land the plane. That has happened before, not too long ago. After 09-11 I can't believe they didn't put any aircraft in the sky in case it was a high jacked aircraft.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[Tolgak 0]

I don't know if you have ever heard ATC chatter, but I can tell you that often times it's almost completely dead for the level you're at. Other times it's very busy, and it makes it very tempting to just turn down the volume knob to super low and wait for your tail number (in this case, their flight number) to be called. When it is busy, conversation between pilots can make it very easy to tune out the chatter.

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What I don't understand is why the auto-pilot system didn't land the plane. That has happened before, not too long ago. After 09-11 I can't believe they didn't put any aircraft in the sky in case it was a high jacked aircraft.

First of all, autopilots that do land planes are only used when the plane has certain special equipment and the pilots are qualified to do the approaches that require them. Normally, autopilots only take the plane down to a few hundred feet above minimums or when the runway is in sight. The plane in question is likely not certified for such approaches, which can be done in as low as no visibility. They require an extreme amount of redundancy in equipment, which is extraordinarily expensive to install.

Also, since you are never sure what runway you will get until you are close to arriving, you don't program the landing into your autopilot until an approach is assigned. Even if you do run an autopilot to landing, you monitor the aircraft's status the entire way down.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[airtwardo 7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system


see ILS categories.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Beerlight 0]

The left seater had over 25 yrs, and 20,000+ hours of accident free/unblemished flying and the first officer very similar.

Do you just gut both of these guys and never let them fly again? Or give them a buttload of remedial training, sim checks out the waaaazoo, and let them fly again?

This one mistake allowance society is getting old.......

[kuai43 7]

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The left seater had over 25 yrs, and 20,000+ hours of accident free/unblemished flying and the first officer very similar.

Do you just gut both of these guys and never let them fly again? Or give them a buttload of remedial training, sim checks out the waaaazoo, and let them fly again?

This one mistake allowance society is getting old.......

hear, hear! +1

Every fight is a food fight if you're a cannibal

Goodness is something to be chosen. When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. - Anthony Burgess

[airtwardo 7]

This one mistake allowance society is getting old.......

Yes & No.

It depends on the mistake and it's context.

In this case, with a couple hundred S.O.B.'s depending on you doing your job, and the possible catastrophic consequences of not doing it...to both the people in the air & on the ground, the answer is to me obvious.

I'm not an airline pilot but I've been living with one for 20 years and I know the pressures and the demands of the job.

It's not easy to fly the schedules and remain sharp...but that's what the job demands, that's what they get paid for and if you don't put the passengers safety as top priority you have no business being there, no second chances... period.

Let's say you're in charge of this, and you give these guys a slap on the wrist and put them back in a cockpit...a while later they do it again and this time the result is a smoking hole full of broken bodies.

Their fault or yours?

There are different levels of screwing the pooch, some can be overlooked, some 'forgiven'....but when other people's lives are in question you have a duty to live up to the trust they've placed in you.

When I was a Tandem Master I made it a priority to be rested, sober, in shape...competent over all.

That's what is expected and I knew it going in...the same with demonstration jumping, I've always said if I ever hurt someone on the ground I'd hang it up.

I think these guys should have known that if they nap out, they're through...by the FAA making this statement loud & clear, I guarantee other professional pilots are sitting up and taking notice.

To whatever degree, the skies above are safer.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Beerlight 0]

Are we still in BF? I agree they screwed the pooch, and if my family was on that jet.....I'd think differently I'm sure. It's just a shame though for those guys......their livelihood, their dreams......poof...gone.....

I know doctors that have had "accidents", created a situation that ultimately allowed a patient to die...yet, they continue to perform as a surgeon. Same deal, but not much "press" to keep it in the limelight........

[airtwardo 7]

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Are we still in BF? I agree they screwed the pooch, and if my family was on that jet.....I'd think differently I'm sure. It's just a shame though for those guys......their livelihood, their dreams......poof...gone.....

I know doctors that have had "accidents", created a situation that ultimately allowed a patient to die...yet, they continue to perform as a surgeon. Same deal, but not much "press" to keep it in the limelight........

I'd bet if a Doctor fell asleep during the operation and ultimately the patient died, there would be some eyebrows raised!

Like I said above, it's a matter of degree & context.

These guys were willing to admit to playin' with their computers, which is also a violation at most airlines...because they KNEW they'd be gutted for telling the truth.

What other choice is there, from the FAA on down to the employer et all...if they were to do it again and have an incident the courts would be swamped for decades.

When your getting paid a buck & a half and hour or so, ya can't phone it in!
Harsh treatment to be sure, but justifiably warranted without question.





That being said~

There are school bus drives with multiple DUI's, repeat child molesters are routinely released into society, murder's get parole, Presidents lie and get pardoned, one time I burned the roast...in all honesty, do you really think it's a society of no 2nd chances?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Beerlight 0]

I hear ya amigo......it's just a sad sad shame of a thing to happen..... ok, well the Ellington airshow is over and I'm heading out for Barbecue, Beer, and Scaring some trick or treaters!!! Have a good one!