Snow/Nearly wrecked a car

[1969912 0]

First, I've been driving in snow and ice for 20+ years, and it's no big deal and I don't have any problems with it unless the snow is so deep that my car bellies out on it. It has been snowing since 2 AM or so, and this morning at around 0800 there was maybe 1.5" on the ground. The temp was ~34F, so the snow was kinda wet and sloppy.

My sister is a real estate agent and had asked me to help her out by putting up some "for sale" signs, etc., so I drove to her place to get the signs. Since the signs were already in her car, I was just going to use it. She lives on a hill with a fairly steep ~.375 mile gravel driveway winding up the hill. The last 100 ft was too steep and slippery for my Hyundai wagon, so I parked it and walked the rest of the way.

Her car is a brand new Mercury Mountaineer SUV with AWD, ABS, traction control, etc. The part of the driveway closest to her house curves to the right (going downhill), and is off-camber, i.e. it's tilted to the outside of the curve. There's a steep 6 ft dropoff and a barbed wire fence on the outside edge of the driveway. So I headed down the hill very slowly, but had to use the brakes to keep it slow, but staying off of the part that I'd turned slick with the Hyundai. Started sliding and feel the ABS chattering. Can't modulate the brakes (very strange feeling, BTW), so I just let the ABS do its thing. This is all happening at baby-crawling speed. Still sliding toward the ditch/fence. Finally the ABS stops working (probably because it has a low-speed cutoff), the brakes lock, and I instinctively try to modulate them. Speed comes up a bit, and the ABS starts working again. Still sliding. The fence is getting really close.

So I finally said "screw it" and just kept the brakes nailed. ABS chatters until the speed drops enough. Brakes lock. Still sliding. After sliding another 5' or so down the driveway, a little berm of snow builds up in front of the tires and I stop. That berm is caused by having locked brakes, and is one of the ways you control a car w/o ABS in the snow. Now I'm about 6 inches from the ditch. So I started moving again while steering to the center of the road, started sliding, nailed the brakes until I stopped, then repeated, gaining a couple inches away from the ditch and a few feet downhill with each iteration. Did this about 10 times before getting past the curve and onto a flatter spot right where my Hyundai was parked.

Anyway, to conclude this too-long post, I parked the SUV next to my car, transferred the signs from her car to mine, then walked back up the hill and gave the keys back to her. Did the work using my car, and am now having a Deschutes IPA

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[airdvr 210]

I've had the same ABS problems in those conditions. Always have to throw the car in neutral to get it to stop

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[1969912 0]

So does putting it in neutral neuter the ABS?

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[ryoder 1,590]

My last vehicle had ABS.
When I ordered my current vehicle, I deliberately omitted ABS.

I can't think of any other technology so surrounded by mis-information:

- It does not reduce stopping distance, but increases it, especially on soft surfaces.
- It does not lower accident rates; It has no effect on them.

The only advantage it provides is the ability to simultaneously brake hard while steering around something.
The problem is this situation is extremely rare in real world driving.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[d_squared431 0]

I have 15 plus years of snow driving behind me and on a daily basis on mountain passes during winter months. I have never had a problem with abs brakes but I know how not to lock brakes up.

Key to winter driving is dont ride brakes, pump them

TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1
I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH
You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly

[ryoder 1,590]

Quote

I have 15 plus years of snow driving behind me and on a daily basis on mountain passes during winter months. I have never had a problem with abs brakes but I know how not to lock brakes up.

Key to winter driving is dont ride brakes, pump them

You should not pump the brakes if your car has ABS.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[1969912 0]

Quote

My last vehicle had ABS.
When I ordered my current vehicle, I deliberately omitted ABS.

I can't think of any other technology so surrended by mis-information:

- It does not reduce stopping distance, but increases it, especially on soft surfaces.
- It does not lower accident rates; It has no effect on them.

The only advantage it provides is the ability to simultaneously brake hard while steering around something.
The problem is this situation is extremely rare in real world driving.

Yeah, I'm with you, and had that opinion even before driving a car with ABS. The thing that happened today didn't need to happen, and it was NOT ABS that prevented a (minor) crash. It was the brakes finally being allowed to lock and have a bit of snow build up in front of the tires.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

The only advantage it provides is the ability to simultaneously brake hard while steering around something.
The problem is this situation is extremely rare in real world driving.

I've had to do that more then a few times. Then again my driving experiences aren't typical. They didn't occur while driving in conditions that the average driver experiences either. It was on an uncontrolled public roadway.

I will tell you that in my experience, full sized ABS equipped cars that the ABS did effect the stopping distance. Then again, that was at radar verified speeds, with the same car type, one with ABS, one with out and on a concrete surface with a tested drag factor of 0.91 (I actually re-verified the drag factor this past week with skid testing). The distances were measured, the driving courses are exact, times, scored and this was a controlled surface Even with proper threshold breaking the ABS equipped car stop faster and obviously performed much better in a brake and escape road course.

None of this was done on ice or snow, since both of those are semi-rare around here.

YMMV, as will your level of training.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[akjmpplt 0]

Been driving in Alaska for 36 years..ABS the best thing since polar fleece.

Like anything you should be aware of it's limitations and strengths. The hardest part is forgetting old habits and learning to stomp the pedal down and let the computer do it's magic.

SmugMug

[drdive 0]

<<>>

At least your story had a happy ending!! Deschutes makes the best beers in the world, IMO, the IPA is great.

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[DavidB 0]

Quote

So does putting it in neutral neuter the ABS?

No, it just stops the rear wheels from driving forward while the fronts are trying to stop. An old OLD trick everyone driving an auto trans car/truck should learn & apply, IMHO! On modern cars/trucks a simple push of the automatic trans shift lever forward, or up, will cause it to shift to neutral, & ONLY into neutral, so there's no fear of engaging reverse unless you also pull/push/turn/depress a button, or in some other way manipulate the shifter first.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.