Pullout: slow deployment

[katzurki 0]

So, I've started jumping a pullout. Feels kinda scary for now. I stow the PC according to the manual. When I pull the pin to full arm extension and let go, it's like two or three uneasy seconds -- eating up a fair lot of altitude -- then I am pulled into a stand and the none-too-slow opening ensues.

How can I speed up the process of getting the PC in the air flow?

[freeflyfree 0]

where do you have the pud attached to, to the base of the pilot chute or to the top (apex I think).

it makes a whole lot of difference (as far as what you feel) from one to the other.

--
Blue Skies
NO FEARS, NO LIMITS, NO MONEY...
"A Subitánea et Improvísa Morte, Líbera nos, Domine."

[jose 0]

When you depoy a BOC, you are placing the pilot chute directly in the airstream. The pilot chute then pulls the pin for you. There is nothing to slow it down. When you jump a pullout, you are pulling the pin first which opens the flaps where your pilot chute is. Depending on how far down the bridle your pilot chute attachment is, you could be leaving your pilot chute directly in your burble. How fast your pilot chute inflates also depends on how you are "throwing" it. With a pull-out, extending your arm completely to the side is the only way to get clean air. In doing this, your pud will be ripped out of your hand when it inflates.

Go back to the BOC style until you understand why jumping a pull out is different. These are things that people need to be asking before they jump equipment they are not familiar with. Asking about equipment and why its different AFTER you have jumped it is not a real smart thing to do. It can get you killed.

[mark 107]

Is the pull-out the only thing new about your gear? Are you jumping the same canopy (not just the same make & model, but the same canopy) as you jumped with a throw-out? The same rig? The same jumpsuit?

Is your pilot chute the one designed for your rig? Is it collapsible? Is the kill line the correct length? How do you make sure it is fully cocked? Is the pull-out pilot chute the same size as the throw-out you were using before?

What do you do for those "two or three uneasy seconds" before you feel the canopy deploying? Does the pilot chute seem to launch when you start reaching for the emergency handles?

Mark

[rmsmith 1]

When I deploy my pullout it inflates and yanks from my grip before I can get full arm extension, and there is no delay in the deployment process. I've used a pullout pilot chute since the seventies, and I've never had a problem with them. The sequence of events is very similar to a rip cord system except that your arm replaces the spring. From an engineering perspective, the BOC sequence of events makes more sense, but I don't care for the spandex pouch, and I've lost a few friends to the twisted leg straps of years past.

[mjosparky 4]

Try reading this attachment.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[katzurki 0]

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Is the pull-out the only thing new about your gear?

Other than the new container -- yes.

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Are you jumping the same canopy (not just the same make & model, but the same canopy) as you jumped with a throw-out?

Yes, the very same canopy. I changed the way I pack it to have a brisker opening, because it was way too slow if it sniveled like it used to. It's not the opening that's slow, it's the PC catching the air that is.

Same jumpsuit, new rig.

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Is your pilot chute the one designed for your rig? Is it collapsible? Is the kill line the correct length? How do you make sure it is fully cocked? Is the pull-out pilot chute the same size as the throw-out you were using before?

It came with the container (which has the canopy it was sized for), so yes. It's brand new, so the kill-line is the correct length for now. I make sure it's fully cocked by 1) letting go of the PC and seeing if it inflates fully, 2) checking the line that goes from the base to the apex.

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What do you do for those "two or three uneasy seconds" before you feel the canopy deploying? Does the pilot chute seem to launch when you start reaching for the emergency handles?

Well *cough* it hasn't gotten to the point of me reaching out for the red and silver yet, I just fall, wait, and count.

The pud is attached to the base of the PC. I've never felt the PC getting yanked out of my grip, it's me who lets go of it.

Will probably get someone to video my opening next weekend.

[ps5601 0]

With pull out it is very easy to pull the pin and not place your pilot chute totally in clean air (or in some cases have it still in the container).

It is essentially that you take the pud to full arm extension before letting go, or you will be having a lot more than 2 or 3 seconds delay! I have done roughly 1000 jumps with pull out, and there have been the odd occasion when I become lazy and dropped the handle early. I normally find that rocking my body will cause enough air to go over my back and clear the pilot chute, in a similar fashion to one you would do with a spring loaded pilot chute in your burble. Note - ensure that you maintain a belly to Earth position while doing this, you really don't want to go unstable during deployment.

Also, while "rocking" has cleared my pilot chute it does often result in an "interesting" opening, however my canopy is a lot more sensitive than yours to this.

One thing you MUST check though is to lay on the ground with your gear on and pull to full arm extension. Check that the pilot chute has cleared your body. If not then you need to find someone who knows equipment (like an advance rigger) to look at your pud attachment. (This potential high speed problem is one of the reasons that there is a 200 jump minimum for pull out in the UK).

Hope this helps

Blue skies

Paul

[mark 107]

Thanks for the replies to my many questions. I wanted to be sure to eliminate all the variables so we know that the problem is in fact the pilot chute and not something else that got changed at the same time.

If you are able to hang on to the base of a cocked pilot chute, the pilot chute is the problem. To confirm, try holding onto the pilot chute pud while holding it out the window of a moving car. Try slowly at first, then gradually increase speed. If you can still hold onto it at autobahn speed, the pilot chute is definitely the problem.

Packing the parachute to open faster is not a solution to your problem.

What skydivers think of as "opening shock" is in fact two shocks very close together. The first shock is called "snatch force" and it occurs at line stretch, when the bag/canopy/pilot chute are accelerated to your nearly freefall speed. (Of course, you are slowing down, too, but you experience a smaller change in velocity because of your greater mass). The second shock is the actual opening shock, which is when you and the canopy slow down to canopy descent speed.

Packing for a brisker opening during the inflation/opening shock phase doesn't affect snatch force. What you need for a more comfortable opening is a smaller velocity difference between your speed after the snatch and the speed when opening shock occurs; in other words, more drag from the pilot chute, greater snatch force, and more deceleration from the snatch force.

(For those inclined to go overboard, gigantic pilot chutes are not the answer to hard openings, since snatch force can hurt, too. It's a matter of balancing the two.)

Mark

[mark 107]

Sorry, just one more question. When you cock your pilot chute, does that draw the kill line up inside the bag, or does it just crinkle up the bridle outside the bag (like a tandem drogue bridle)?

Mark