egons 0 #51 June 3, 2005 You know this thread was started with someone pointing out a price increase... but has rather turned out to a thread of which rig is better and bla bla bla... The fact is I think you know very little about a Micron and when we meet I would be more than happy to explain the Micron in depth and why we do things the way we do... Maybe you will cross Bill Booth's path and you will have the pleasure of sitting down and educating yourself about gear... I am certainly not going to sit here and argue with you or any one else... its pointless and we will achieve nothing! Fact is we specialize in building Harness/Container systems and we build damn good safe gear - fact! You own a Icon and I can see why you are comparing it to the V3 of which we are flattered as most container/harness companies have gauged themselves against what RWS has done in the industry and market place. We have constantly being pushed by the industry to bring the level up to a new high and we always do! Have you visted RWS yet! Before you go knocking a company for a so-called premium understand what we do here and how we come up with our products! The Icon is a very new product and has a very long way to go to establish the reputation we have in the industry. I know the guys at Aerodyne and they are good people and understand I am not bashing them what so ever. I see you jump PD canopies - is it worth paying the so-called premium to jump their canopies! For me the answer is simply YES! I am a believer in PD's canopies and understand what they go through to deliver a product and this all comes at a price. I do not think I am going to win you over on the V3 pricing and for that I apologize, but rather accept that each company has its own choice as to what it builds, markets, and engineers its products. We are not perfect and we are certainly trying to please everyone... I am sure you will meet me one day and we will share a beer and you will laugh at this thread Cheers mate! "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tso-d_chris 0 #52 June 3, 2005 Quote You know this thread was started with someone pointing out a price increase... but has rather turned out to a thread of which rig is better and bla bla bla... From what I have been reading, the thread has and still is about RWS justifying a price increase. I am not bashing Vector in any way. It is with good reason that it is the most imitated container on the US market today. But the fact is, it is very well imitated in very recent years. So well that some aspects have actually been improved upon, if only marginally, such as Aerodyne's mini force risers, which Bill Booth's own testing proved to reduce necessary pull force by 1-2 lbs. Not much, admittedly, but if we are going to nitpick about little differences, the Vector comes up slightly short in that particular comparison. I just compared closely a brand new Icon and Vector 3. Admittedly, the workmanship is clearly better on the Vector. Bear in mind that does not imply poor workmanship on the Icon. It's just that in this particular comparison, the Vector comes out slightly ahead. The design seems to be slightly more detail oriented on the Vector. Again, the perceived benefits are likely to be marginal at best. In fairness, I am not a rigger, and it would be very interesting to hear what an experienced master rigger hadto say about the two rigs during a side by side comparison. Or, better yet, an engineer from each company! From what I can see, the two rigs have far more in common than they have differences. Evidently I'm not the only one who has noticed this, and that is why jumpers want to understand why RWS is increasing prices. For Great Deals on Gear Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #53 June 3, 2005 I'm sorry. I really didn't intend this to turn into a "my rig is better than yours" one. Clearly the Micron is a very good rig. I'm done now. If I ever find myself in the vacinity of deLand, RWS is certainly on my list of places to visit. I'm told I tend to be far less annoying in person. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egons 0 #54 June 3, 2005 ...you give me a call when you head to Deland! I am sure you will have a great time, and there are many folks on dz.com who can agree!I think that for the most part people very seldom understand why any manufacturer do certain things. I see many skydivers going through AFF and coming out knowing little to nothing about their gear... in fact I even had a skydiver come for a tour and I sat down with the group looking at the rig and explaining the reserve container and deployment sequence - the individual turned to me and was amazed there was even a Sping Loaded PC in her reserve container. This individual honestly had not a clue as to how the reserve was actually going to activate - needless to say another few hours and she left a little more educated! Now who do we blame for this lack of knowledge??? The current system at which skydivers are taught and fed into the system I think - do we blame turbines, packing concessions, etc. There is no perfect solution, but it is only getting worse! I guess the point is that many skydivers come to this site for information and walk away basing their opinions on what they read, and in many cases its proved successful, but sometimes they are misinformed So, if your wanting to get a real answer from a company as to why they do things the way they do I know every representative out there for manufacturers is more than willing to answer your questions! The manufacturer reps are really wonderful people - and for the most part we really push each other to build safer higher quality gear! "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #55 June 3, 2005 QuoteThe current system at which skydivers are taught and fed into the system I think - do we blame turbines, packing concessions, etc. There is no perfect solution, but it is only getting worse! The only way to place the blame is the instructors. All of the other things are just extras, the instructors still have to do their job.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egons 0 #56 June 3, 2005 Yes you are right, but at many facilities instructors are only paid to jump and there emphasis is not on the ground schooling - the smaller dropzones suffer a little less with regard to lack of gear knowledge in my opinion. The 182 dz's have a small lift capacity, so there is plenty of sitting around and chatting and things are learnt this way! Maybe the programs out there are not gear intensive enough... There is no single perfect solution and each dz in conjunction with the instructors have to come up with a plan that works for them and their students... Safety first always! "Start doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you're doing the impossible!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #57 June 3, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe current system at which skydivers are taught and fed into the system I think - do we blame turbines, packing concessions, etc. There is no perfect solution, but it is only getting worse! The only way to place the blame is the instructors. All of the other things are just extras, the instructors still have to do their job. I place the blame on the students... Those who don't ask questions and seek knowledge, I just don't understand... Instructors at best can get the juices flowing, but the student has to want to drink and be thirsty... That is my two cents, and it sucks when people die because of their lack of thirst... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #58 June 3, 2005 QuoteYou know this thread was started with someone pointing out a price increase... but has rather turned out to a thread of which rig is better and bla bla bla... That was me... If I had only known the door I was opening. As I said in my first post, I love my Vector (and will pay the price increase next time for another.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #59 June 4, 2005 QuoteI place the blame on the students... Those who don't ask questions and seek knowledge, I just don't understand... Instructors at best can get the juices flowing, but the student has to want to drink and be thirsty... That is my two cents, and it sucks when people die because of their lack of thirst... You can't put all the blame on the students. They're students. Many of whom don't even know the proper questions to ask or if something is really as important as it is. It's the Instructors job to assist in that, and provide what's needed. Kris Ex-IAD-ISky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
