Illegal reserve?

[NickDG 23]

>>What would be the proper action to take in a situation like this.<<


At the very least, of course, don't repack it. Second, take your indelible marker and write "This canopy not fit for reserve use" across the center cell and sign your name and title. Or, and this what I'd do, take a pair of scissors to it . . .

If you don't, some unsuspecting tandem master and student might pay the price.

Third, find the last rigger who sealed it. He/she needs counseling.

Calling the FAA is the last thing I'd do, that's too much like calling artillery down on your own position . . .

NickD BASE 194

[masterrig 1]

Also, I don't believe, the FAA is really concerned with skydiving/riggers. Unless, they recieve a letter which, they must folow-up on. Visit with the last rigger who packed it... if, in fact, a rigger DID pack it.


Chuck

[phoenixlpr 0]

Last time it seemed like a canopy, just like before.
It was quite mystical before I have tried.

You know : It looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck, ...

[nitrochute 2]

yeah that rigger ought to be shot at the least. when you are dealing with a tandem reserve(or any tandem gear) the responsibilty is doubled.anyone who would put a used main in service as a reserve should have their license yanked.

[wmw999 2,545]

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Last time it seemed like a canopy, just like before.

When you get your rigger's ticket, you are welcome to treat your own reserve in a cavalier fashion -- yes, it is just a canopy. But that doesn't mean being cavalier is the right thing to do, particularly not for someone else.

A doctor is free to treat himself in whatever halfassed way he wants to. But he owes his patient the best care he can give them.

This would be particularly true of a tandem canopy -- after all, it's not your bud that you drink with whose canopy you're putting back in there. It's some stranger's beloved mother, father, son, or daughter, grandmother or grandfather, who's expecting the best that the rigger can do.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[mjosparky 4]

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Last time it seemed like a canopy, just like before.
It was quite mystical before I have tried.

You know : It looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck, ...

It may look like a duck, it may sound like a duck. But it is your reserve parachute, the last thing you have that is going to possibly keep you from being a mass of mush and splintered bone. So you keep thinking ducks and there is a good chance you will meet the reaper. He is always looking for new friends like you.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stratostar 5]

This post says it all, but let me ask everyone here this.
Would you all still feel the same way if the person who did this was a "legendary" dzo and a master rigger with many years in the sport and would know better then to do so, but did so anyway with no regard as to other peoples life's.

What if it was your wife who was going to jump that rig then how would feel?

How would you feel if you found this after she just landed?

Do you keep your mouth shut or do you speek up to the fed's, after all if someone would do this twice or more time's what makes those of you who say "talk to the dzo first" think for a minute that this kind of whack-o give's a shit what you think or would change things because you say something.
They have shown already that they have no regard for human life and would blatantly endanger and or attempt to kill two people knowingly and willfully by swapping out the canpoies in the first place.
So those of you who say nothing to the fed's and only the fed's, are just being part of the problem.
By not doing the right thing and speeking up your condoning the actions and putting others at risk as well as putting the sport at risk.
To many people have turnned a blind eye for years to this kind of stuff, and yet they would take family and friends to these kind of dz's to spend money there and keep these kind of crooks up and running,
while knowing the whole time this kind of crap is going on.
How do you people sleep at night, Oh that's right "it won't happen to your friend/family"

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 16]

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What if it was your wife who was going to jump that rig then how would feel?

Or even worse, your girlfriend!

Hey seriously, every tandem rig owner should be making a pile of dough with those rigs, easily a $100,000 in 1000 jumps on it. Get your act together and put some dough aside for maintenance, just like airplane owners have to do. If you can't do that, get out of the business or just work at a DZ with decent gear that gets properly maintained by them.

[tso-d_chris 0]

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every tandem rig owner should be making a pile of dough with those rigs, easily a $100,000 in 1000 jumps on it.

I doubt most tandem operations clear $100 per jump. $150 minus two slots equals $110, minus $20-$25 for packing and maintanence, leaving $90 or less. Give the tandem instructor $35, the rig owner is left with about $50 or so, from which he still has to pay for the $10,000 plus rig.

For Great Deals on Gear

[mjosparky 4]

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every tandem rig owner should be making a pile of dough with those rigs, easily a $100,000 in 1000 jumps on it.

I doubt most tandem operations clear $100 per jump. $150 minus two slots equals $110, minus $20-$25 for packing and maintanence, leaving $90 or less. Give the tandem instructor $35, the rig owner is left with about $50 or so, from which he still has to pay for the $10,000 plus rig.

Even if he/she is losing money on every jump, do it right or let someone else do it. If what was described here did happen it would or should be criminal. That is willful disregard for someone’s life.

If they can't pay for the rig in the useful life of the main they need to take some business classes.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stratostar 5]

If what was described here did happen it would or should be criminal. That is willful disregard for someone’s life.
(quote)

It did happen and has happend before along with other stuff just as "willful and knowingly" and criminal by this dzo.

So do you speek up or shut up?
Who here really has the balls to tell the truth and "NARC" to the feds.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[skydiverton 0]

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Early tandem mains and reserves were often the same canopy, both TSO'ed...but that was nearly 20 years ago. I've heard of 360 canopies of that vintage being used as a main for a thousand jumps, or until they got scary (long openings, no flare) and then swapped out with that brand new 360 in the reserve container. Such conduct is atrocious, but not necessarily illegal, as long as a rigger keeps "recertifing" the reserve each time he packs it. These canopies were made by both Pioneer and PD, and back then there was no 20 use limit. If one of those ever got to my loft, we would, of course, refuse to pack it. But then, they would just probably get someone else. We always did everything the law allowed when these cases came up in the past. As I remember, we pulled a tandem rating or two. But with tandem now "legal" we have little authority any more...and no authority outside the US.

Just wondering,

which tandemmaster still jumps 20year old 360-s when you have a couple of very nice tandemcanopies (US and/or european built) available nowaday.

The DZ I jump uses very new equipment (well maintained also) If the DZ-owner lets me jump a 20year old 360 he can start advertising for another TM!

Ok tandem is for me just weekend freelance job. I have a regular job during the week, so I'm not forced to jump for money.

Jumping good well maintained equipment decreases one risk factor in skydiving dramatic, in each case during tandems.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Using your droque to gain stability is a bad habit,
Especially when you are jumping a sport rig

[JohnMitchell 16]

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I doubt most tandem operations clear $100 per jump. $150 minus two slots equals $110, minus $20-$25 for packing and maintanence, leaving $90 or less. Give the tandem instructor $35, the rig owner is left with about $50 or so, from which he still has to pay for the $10,000 plus rig.

The figures I was thinking follow. Our DZ charges $195 for Tandems. I think that is getting to be the norm. Minus $40 for 2 slots, $35 for the TM who is required to pack it back up, leaves $120. Even if you pay a packer, that is only $10 at our DZ. Reserve repacks, $60 every 120 days. Cypress maintenance, $100 every two years. Profits will vary, and a new sigma is running about $15,000, but there is money to be made with those rigs. If you're investing $15,000 and having a return of 90K to 100K over the next 5-10 years, you can afford to maintain it. If not, find another line of work. There are too many worn out tandem rigs out there. They should be retired.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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So do you speek up or shut up?

The problem is if you speak up you will get zero support from your fellow jumpers, trust me, I know. They just want to jump and have fun, they do not want to take a stand.

Derek

[wildblue 7]

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So do you speek up or shut up?

The problem is if you speak up you will get zero support from your fellow jumpers, trust me, I know. They just want to jump and have fun, they do not want to take a stand.

Derek

And yet another problem with skydiving - you're never sure if you're supporting someone in their quest to make it a safer/better sport, or if you're helping to perpetuate a personal/political grudge by expressing outrage over a 10 year old incident.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[juggalo 1]

And yet another problem with skydiving - you're never sure if you're supporting someone in their quest to make it a safer/better sport, or if you're helping to perpetuate a personal/political grudge by expressing outrage over a 10 year old incident

That could be true but this case is to make us safer.
There were many problems at this DZ and I really will not go into them. But there is a paper trail out to follow if anyone cares to take the time. Look under the FOI act. I could tell you things that would keep
you up late at night but its best to look for yourself
and make a decision that way.

waving off is to tell people to get out of my landing area

[mjosparky 4]

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So do you speek up or shut up?

The problem is if you speak up you will get zero support from your fellow jumpers, trust me, I know. They just want to jump and have fun, they do not want to take a stand.

Derek

And yet another problem with skydiving - you're never sure if you're supporting someone in their quest to make it a safer/better sport, or if you're helping to perpetuate a personal/political grudge by expressing outrage over a 10 year old incident.

If you are a regular at a DZ and a fellow jumper makes an issue of safety practices you know if his concerns are real or if he is just grand standing. In either case, it up to each jumper to take a stand on what he knows to be true and not stick their head in the sand.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[stratostar 5]

Yes I know you are correct, so besides you, Who here really has the balls to tell the truth and "NARC" to the feds when the feds need to be called?

You again would be correct by saying,
" you will get zero support from your fellow jumpers,they do not want to take a stand."
Sad but that is the way it is.

~

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[riggerrob 643]

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Yes I know you are correct, so besides you, Who here really has the balls to tell the truth and "NARC" to the feds when the feds need to be called?

You again would be correct by saying,
" you will get zero support from your fellow jumpers,they do not want to take a stand."
Sad but that is the way it is.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

NARCing to quietly tell the TIs that "rig #3 has a faded, frayed and filthy, 20-year-old reserve." After seeing rig#3 sit on the ground too many weekends and his pool of TIs shrink, the DZO might be bright enough to replace his rattiest gear.
If the DZO is not bright enough to replace his rattiest gear, then he deserves to go bankrupt.


~